All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (8 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[SaintForLife]

The power to be a leader??

You're joking, right?

Holy smokes man.

We were talking about the President not having the power to force states to follow the federal guidelines or force states to not reopen.

Please point out the law that enables the President to do those things or you can just continue making empty platitudes.

 

[brandon]

I don't ever recall saying that.
but the amount of illogical hate from certain politicians toward Trump, makes me think he is doing something right.

Perhaps you should instead consider that when everyone disapproves of the job you’re doing, it’s because you’re not doing a good job.

 

[brandon]

We were talking about the President not having the power to force states to follow the federal guidelines or force states to not reopen.

With good leadership, you don’t have to force anything at all.

 

[MT15]

SFL, it’s not hypocritical to criticize Trump for his horrible response to this pandemic, and your saying it over and over doesn’t validate your point. And your bringing up what you consider to be Obama’s failures is just irrelevant to the discussion.

And saying Trump didn’t desperately want Hydroxychloroquine to be a cure, when every tweet and statement pushing it showed exactly what he wanted, is just more you ignoring what everyone can see with their own eyes.

Trump downplayed the virus, when others were rightly concerned. He ignored it, said it was going to go away. He was wrong, obviously. He was wrong about almost everything during this crisis. He owns this failure. The US has done worse than every other comparable country. It just can’t be excused away.

 

[RobF]

Bringing up Obama was totally relevant to show how the last President handled an infectious virus for context. The fact that y'all can't acknowledge that Obama couldn't comtrol the virus while you guys claimed Trump should have controlled the virus with the magical pandemic playbook exposes hypocrisy.

The argument is that Trump has failed badly in controlling the virus. This is a relative argument; that the virus could, and would, have been controlled better, in line with other nations that have done better, with fewer cases and fewer deaths, had the President done his job, taken it seriously, used the powers available to him in a timely manner, and not actively undermined people's comprehension of the seriousness of the issue while also actively undermining state and national public health efforts.

It is not an argument that Trump should have used magic powers to make the virus disappear. That's a particularly flimsy straw man.

It's funny how those quotes from Trump didn't contain the word cure.

@MT15's point (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Trump promoted hydroxychloroquine as a treatment and preventative in spite of a lack of scientific evidence, declaring it to have a real chance of being, "one of the biggest game-changers in the history of medicine."

Additionally he used his twitter feed to share a video which explicitly declared that "The virus has a cure, it's called hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and Zithromax", and that, "You don't need masks. There is a cure." The video was, of course, taken down because that's dangerous nonsense: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53559938

"He didn't personally say the word 'cure'," is a semantic point that does nothing to change the fact that Trump has wildly overpromoted hydroxychloroquine, promoting potentially harmful beliefs and encouraging complacency, which undermines public health efforts and causes real harm.

 

[bdb13]

I don't think that Trump could have forced the states to do much either, but hell the Republicans are conducting a convention right now where they're only platform is pledging support for Trump... So I feel confident in saying that Republican led states would have generally followed his lead and that it likely would have resulted in less resistance to the steps needed to help control the virus.

I can point out other specific things too from early on, but just in general his refusal to step ahead and lead has definitely been his largest failure and it has exacerbated the problem with the virus in this country.

 

[Nebaghead]

We were talking about the President not having the power to force states to follow the federal guidelines or force states to not reopen.

Please point out the law that enables the President to do those things or you can just continue making empty platitudes.

yeah this was in regards to closing the state borders. No president has that authority. If he would have been promoting those kind of solutions, more governors would have implemented.

 

[The moose]

Ok for a bit of perspective.

We as a nation have more deaths from the coronavirus than the entire Asian continent. The largest continent on the planet by mass and population.

4.4 billion people and 48 countries are doing this better than us combined.

We only have 330 million people!

That is right it is Obama administration is why!

 

[efil4]

We were talking about the President not having the power to force states to follow the federal guidelines or force states to not reopen.

Please point out the law that enables the President to do those things or you can just continue making empty platitudes.

If one needs a law to exert "power" , then that one is not a leader.

We have a common enemy. We have a common goal. It was put on a platter for him. All he had to do was unite the country under the common goal.

He failed. Miserably. But then again, the country elected a failed businessman-turned-reality-TV-host...so it stands to reason we are where we are.

 

[Taurus]

It's so bizarre seeing people try to defend being dead last on this. I mean, seriously? We're supposed to excuse that?

Why? Why on Earth is anyone trying to plead the case that this Administration is actually doing well when we're trailing the rest of the entire world?
****hole African countries are beating us on this, cheek-by-jowl Asian countries are stomping us, FFS.

 

[The moose]

It's so bizarre seeing people try to defend being dead last on this. I mean, seriously? We're supposed to excuse that?

Why? Why on Earth is anyone trying to plead the case that this Administration is actually doing well when we're trailing the rest of the entire world?
****hole African countries are beating us on this, cheek-by-jowl Asian countries are stomping us, FFS.

Because that is all the have.

If you trick people into believing that the pandemic would have been this bad regardless of who was in charge is the only hand they truly have.

As I pointed out earlier the largest land mass with the most people over 4 billion is taking us to the woodshed on this. We have more deaths with only 330 million people.

It is truly pathetic to continue to try this and only for the brain dead that will justify anything and everything.

We have staggering deaths that a large portion lie with this administration and their complete incompetent response.

 

[Taurus]

Because that is all the have.

If you trick people into believing that the pandemic would have been this bad regardless of who was in charge is the only hand they truly have.

As I pointed out earlier the largest land mass with the most people over 4 billion is taking us to the woodshed on this. We have more deaths with only 330 million people.

It is truly pathetic to continue to try this and only for the brain dead that will justify anything and everything.

We have staggering deaths that a large portion lie with this administration and their complete incompetent response.

More deaths than WWI or Vietnam. We're pushing hard to have as many fatalities as WWII by early next year.

Considering how simple the mitigation steps are (1. Stay home...a real lockdown for a month. 2. Wear a mask 3. Social distancing 4. Washing hands) it's criminal that we're doing so poorly. If Covid were a human enemy, Trump's entire Administration would go before a firing squad for treason.

 

[Saintamaniac]

Considering how simple the mitigation steps are (1. Stay home...a real lockdown for a month. 2. Wear a mask 3. Social distancing 4. Washing hands) it's criminal that we're doing so poorly. If Covid were a human enemy, Trump's entire Administration would go before a firing squad for treason.

It's incredible when you think about it. If trump had followed the advice of the people who actually know what they are talking about and mandated 2 & 3 we would be sitting here helpless to prevent a 2nd term. Now, thanks to his complete and total incompetence, 170K+ Americans are dead, there's a good chance that trump will be a one term president and the first former president to be criminally convicted after leaving office. It will be a great day for democracy the day they close the door to his cell.

 

[efil4]

It's incredible when you think about it. If trump had followed the advice of the people who actually know what they are talking about and mandated 2 & 3 we would be sitting here helpless to prevent a 2nd term. Now, thanks to his complete and total incompetence, 170K+ Americans are dead, there's a good chance that trump will be a one term president and the first former president to be criminally convicted after leaving office. It will be a great day for democracy the day they close the door to his cell.

its no longer amazing - if you simply look at his lifes work, its just who he is.

 

[insidejob]

its no longer amazing - if you simply look at his lifes work, its just who he is.

Good point. Just make it stop already. I think we've had more than we can take of him before the country just implodes.

 

[lurk]

Was I incorrect?

Please explain to me exactly what share of the blame each and every medical professional in this country carries for the coronavirus and why it is that said person carries that specific piece of blame. You can break it down by state, provider level, hospital system, or even go practice-by-practice or provider-by-provider if you need to - whatever it is that you need to do to fully articulate your point. If we need to start with Shiela the night LPN at the nursing home in Blaine County, Nebraska, and go from there, then let's do it.

@Richard, I'd appreciate your take too since you agree with him.

 

[Richard]

Please explain to me exactly what share of the blame each and every medical professional in this country carries for the coronavirus and why it is that said person carries that specific piece of blame. You can break it down by state, provider level, hospital system, or even go practice-by-practice or provider-by-provider if you need to - whatever it is that you need to do to fully articulate your point. If we need to start with Shiela the night LPN at the nursing home in Blaine County, Nebraska, and go from there, then let's do it.

@Richard, I'd appreciate your take too since you agree with him.

I am sorry, but I am confused. What post of mine gave you that impression?

 

[Farb]

I will say, that I didn't intend to group all medical professionals, I was meaning the ones that are influencing public policy. Fauci, WHO, CDC for example. Not the ER nurse in Mattoon Ill.

Other than that, that is pretty lengthy homework assignment, so I am probably going to pass on that one.