All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (13 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[SFIDC3]

Trump and the Republican Governors were criticized for wanting to reopen things too early.

My Republican governor is quite different from most of the others....thank god...he has got my vote next election....

 

[Richard]

My Republican governor is quite different from most of the others....thank god...he has got my vote next election....

I was hoping Hogan would make a primary challenge to Trump, but realistically, he would have a better shot in 2024.

My state's governor has done a pretty good job of trying to keep the public informed. He probably angered Trump somewhat because he kept the state in a stage of lockdown that allowed for more businesses to open, but didn't fully lift all restrictions. He opened the state up in defensible stages when it appears the medical data supported his actions. I appreciated that he seemed to be more interested in protecting the citizens of the state rather than only listening to Trump's desires to fully reopen.

 

[Optimus Prime]

My Republican governor is quite different from most of the others....thank god...he has got my vote next election....

I like hogan too

I wonder how he’d be received by the national republican base if he were to run for President

I also wonder how Hogan would be

Is he the way he is because that’s how he is?

Or is he the way he is because that’s how a Republican governor of a democratic state has to be?

I’d like to think that’s who he is and I’m not saying I’d vote for him for president but I’d certainly think about it a lot harder than I have for any other previous republican candidate

 

[SFIDC3]

I was hoping Hogan would make a primary challenge to Trump, but realistically, he would have a better shot in 2024.

My state's governor has done a pretty good job of trying to keep the public informed. He probably angered Trump somewhat because he kept the state in a stage of lockdown that allowed for more businesses to open, but didn't fully lift all restrictions. He opened the state up in defensible stages when it appears the medical data supported his actions. I appreciated that he seemed to be more interested in protecting the citizens of the state rather than only listening to Trump's desires to fully reopen.

Me too....he is in kind of a tough position here because there is little chance most of his proposals actually happen (lowering taxes, cutting local piggyback taxes, lowering taxes for older folks so that retirement in MD isn't so dire) because most of the state legislature is democrats. TBH, a good percentage of MD has great schools, parks and public services. It is a great place to raise kids because most of the public schools are better than most private schools, I really don't see that changing here.

Back to Hogan, he is anti-regs, pro private sector but is also committed to improving education in those counties that need it and he is very good at working across the aisle....he is highly respected by both sides here for the most part....and I do think he deeply cares about the citizens of his state.

I would actually consider voting for him over Biden...would consider...but would have to see what his plans/policies/proposals would look like at the national level...

I think he is exactly who he is...that is just like my opinion.... though....man.....

 

[MT15]

Restrictions haven't been totally lifted. Most places are still in stage 1 of reopening everything and there are 4 phases.

The people who previously made a similar argument as you are now were shouted down by those on the left including here and Democratic politicians as people who prefer capitalism over people's lives.

Trump and the Republican Governors were criticized for wanting to reopen things too early.

So some of your statements are just not true. You are really making a complex situation into a false dichotomy, boiling it down to “Republicans good, Democrats bad!!“

There were Republican governors who did a great job, they closed things down when they needed to, and they are opening up by listening to medical experts and going slow.

There were Democratic governors who were too slow to act and seemed to be not listening to medical experts.

Sometimes the same governor went from one category to another over time (underreaction to overreaction and or the other way around).

Medical experts have revised their recommendations based on new information as it becomes available. We don’t know what we don’t know, and sometimes medical advice is an educated guess at this point.

The only constant is that Trump was no help. He dithered about the virus when he should have been preparing, he denied it was coming when he knew it was, he was scared to stop people from coming from Europe when he was told he should, the incompetence goes on and on.

Most governors who have done a good job have just ignored him.

 

[Optimus Prime]

On CNN earlier today that said that a study by Berkeley estimated that the shutdown/quarantine prevented 60 million infections

Which my simple math means that 3 million deaths were prevented

100,000 deaths per 2 million infections

 

[SFIDC3]

The only constant is that Trump was no help. He dithered about the virus when he should have been preparing, he denied it was coming when he knew it was, he was scared to stop people from coming from Europe when he was told he should, the incompetence goes on and on.

Most governors who have done a good job have just ignored him.

This is absolutely true....Hogan being a good example of ignoring Trump and getting his state supplies on his own....which I think embarrassed/annoyed Dear Leader a bit....

 

[Optimus Prime]

This is absolutely true....Hogan being a good example of ignoring Trump and getting his state supplies on his own....which I think embarrassed/annoyed Dear Leader a bit....

Not just getting the supplies, but keeping them under guard in a secret location

Under guard protecting them from the Feds
Think about how amazing and unprecedented that has to be

 

[SaintForLife]

So some of your statements are just not true. You are really making a complex situation into a false dichotomy, boiling it down to “Republicans good, Democrats bad!!“

There were Republican governors who did a great job, they closed things down when they needed to, and they are opening up by listening to medical experts and going slow.

There were Democratic governors who were too slow to act and seemed to be not listening to medical experts.

Sometimes the same governor went from one category to another over time (underreaction to overreaction and or the other way around).

Medical experts have revised their recommendations based on new information as it becomes available. We don’t know what we don’t know, and sometimes medical advice is an educated guess at this point.

The only constant is that Trump was no help. He dithered about the virus when he should have been preparing, he denied it was coming when he knew it was, he was scared to stop people from coming from Europe when he was told he should, the incompetence goes on and on.

Most governors who have done a good job have just ignored him.

Your interpretation of my post is incorrect. I supported the lockdowns and all the restrictions. My problem is strictly with the medical professionals and politicians who were still saying that we should have restrictions and then as soon as the protests started they reversed course and said protesting against racism was more important. Those same officials criticized the people who were protesting the lockdowns.

What new medical information did the experts get that allowed them to revise their recommendation that the protesting was okay to do now?

 

[MT15]

Your interpretation of my post is incorrect. I supported the lockdowns and all the restrictions. My problem is strictly with the medical professionals and politicians who were still saying that we should have restrictions and then as soon as the protests started they reversed course and said protesting against racism was more important. Those same officials criticized the people who were protesting the lockdowns.

What new medical information did the experts get that allowed them to revise their recommendation that the protesting was okay to do now?

I guess I haven’t seen any medical professionals stating that protesting was without risk. What I took away from the ones I heard was that they understood why people might be willing to take the risk if they felt that the cause was important enough.

Now, I do think I saw people who were critical of the lockdowns twisting it into something else, like you indicated. I guess it depends on who you listen to about it.

On the other hand, it looks like a handful of states are seeing a definite trend upward in cases, mostly Southern. I saw Arizona, Texas, Louisiana, and Georgia mentioned, but there may have been others. Oh, Missouri, too, because my son lives there, so I remember that one.

People should be aware of the recent uptick and take personal precautions as they see fit. We are still being careful and wearing a mask in the grocery. Trying to only go once a week. We did eat outside at a restaurant this weekend. First time since March.

 

[SaintForLife]

I guess I haven’t seen any medical professionals stating that protesting was without risk. What I took away from the ones I heard was that they understood why people might be willing to take the risk if they felt that the cause was important enough.

Now, I do think I saw people who were critical of the lockdowns twisting it into something else, like you indicated. I guess it depends on who you listen to about it.

On the other hand, it looks like a handful of states are seeing a definite trend upward in cases, mostly Southern. I saw Arizona, Texas, Louisiana, and Georgia mentioned, but there may have been others. Oh, Missouri, too, because my son lives there, so I remember that one.

People should be aware of the recent uptick and take personal precautions as they see fit. We are still being careful and wearing a mask in the grocery. Trying to only go once a week. We did eat outside at a restaurant this weekend. First time since March.

I posted this earlier in the thread, but it talks about some the issues I referenced earlier:

Suddenly, Public Health Officials Say Social Justice Matters More Than Social Distance

For months, health experts told Americans to stay home. Now, many are encouraging the public to join mass protests.

www.politico.com

 

[MT15]

So, I took it that the health experts quoted in the article were giving their personal opinions that the protests were important to them.

I don’t have time to delve super deeply, but the first epidemiologist quoted as saying she felt the protests were more important, really wasn’t a fan of the total lockdown to begin with if you read her tweets. So while the article implies she was being inconsistent, she probably wasn’t really being all that inconsistent.

She took a lot of heat on Twitter for saying what she said about the protests, but I found these Tweets as well:

 

[gummbo]

Your interpretation of my post is incorrect. I supported the lockdowns and all the restrictions. My problem is strictly with the medical professionals and politicians who were still saying that we should have restrictions and then as soon as the protests started they reversed course and said protesting against racism was more important. Those same officials criticized the people who were protesting the lockdowns.

What new medical information did the experts get that allowed them to revise their recommendation that the protesting was okay to do now?

I believe that after the tragic event of a week and a half ago if the politicians in the medical experts would’ve insisted on the lockdown people would still have going out to protest and because we had a lockdown in place the police would’ve had another motive to beat the hell out of people for not following another order, so by not enforcing the law down in allowing people to protest I believe it may have Defused the situation somewhat. Now we just have to wait and see 15 to 21 days from now how all this is going to affect the virus. I hope and pray that it isn’t too bad, Hope you are well and safe

 

[insidejob]

AAAS

blogs.sciencemag.org

The status of a vaccine as of yesterday. With the multiple states having instances of greater numbers of infected people currently than they did when this first hit makes me think I won't be comfortable not wearing a mask or being around anyone not wearing one until there is a vaccine.

I read in another article that the antibodies they're looking for that would make you immune to catching it again aren't there in many cases, which isn't promising at all. You catch it, get sick, quarantine, feel better and then go out thinking you're immune only to catch it again and repeat the whole miserable cycle.

 

[insidejob]

This isn't political but is something I think everyone should read.

Coronavirus 2nd Wave? Nope, The U.S. Is Still Stuck In The 1st One

The nation still sees more than 20,000 new cases on average a day, a number that's barely budged for weeks. Forecasters say we're looking at tens of thousands more deaths this summer.

www.npr.org

 

[gummbo]

To consider the second wave with me that the first one came to a complete stop, and that is far from reality. I’m afraid that the downside to the George Floyd protest #BlackLivesMatter Will have a negative affect in trying to straighten out the curve, the irony of trying to defeat one disease by giving life to another

 

[MT15]

So here’s some good news. Remember the Great Clips in Springfield MO that had two stylists who came to work sick and potentially exposed 140 some customers? Turns out nobody came down with the virus. Which points to the efficacy of mask wearing. Turns out wearing a face covering might be the best way to prevent spread of the virus. Making it doubly infuriating that Trump has turned mask wearing into a political issue. The one thing we could do to make it possible for everyone to go back to work and boost our economy and he makes it a divisive topic.

 

[SaintForLife]

The main defense that I've heard about politicians and health officials supporting people protesting is that most of them are wearing masks. Wearing masks is definitely much better than no mask, but mask benefits are negated by lack of social distancing and more than 15 minutes of close exposure.