All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (4 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[Heathen]

I haven't kept up with it, but there have been some notable examples like the 15 Jewish guys arrested/or charged for attending a funeral in NJ, the man who was detained playing catch with his daughter and wife on an otherwise empty ballfields, the guy who was arrested surfing by himself.

Again, are these examples more drastic than potential outbreaks and hundreds if not thousands more additional hospitalizations or deaths because some people are tired of being told not to gather together in large groups?

 

[Optimus Prime]

......The remarkable spectacle provided another illustration of the president’s tenuous relationship with his own administration’s scientific and public health experts, where the unofficial message from the Oval Office is an unmistakable warning: Those who challenge the president’s erratic and often inaccurate coronavirus views will be punished — or made to atone.

In a statement Wednesday, for example, Rick Bright — who until recently led the agency working on a coronavirus vaccine — said he was removed from his post for resisting efforts to “provide an unproven drug on demand to the American public.”

The result is a culture in which public health officials find themselves scrambling to appease and placate Trump, a mercurial boss who is focused as much on political and economic considerations as scientific ones.........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/under-trump-coronavirus-scientists-can-speak--as-long-as-they-toe-the-line/2020/04/22/a0a67c12-84b9-11ea-878a-86477a724bdb_story.html

 

[The moose]

The levels of delusion running through the minds of certain leaders in this country dead (pun fully intended) set on forcing their hand in opening back up the economy is astounding.

The Mayor of LV offers her citizens as a 'control group' :

Las Vegas Mayor Offers Up Her City to See How Many Die Without Social Distancing

Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman told CNN she wants her city to be a “test case” to see if social distancing measures actually save lives.

nymag.com

I do get that one to some extent.

They survive completely off of tourist just like new Orleans. Heck think about all the people that bought up all the doubles in new Orleans to b&b them to pay the bills. They are screwed.

In one way shape or form the tourist have to come back. I get that but it is not happening without the people being confident in actually controlling this virus.

Testing is the answer. Yet with the open market healthcare system we have it makes testing the population effectively almost impossible without Uncle Sam doing it!

 

[Beach Friends]

Again, are these examples more drastic than potential outbreaks and hundreds if not thousands more additional hospitalizations or deaths because some people are tired of being told not to gather together in large groups?

Rather than argue as to whether arresting one guy surfing by himself is over reach (it clearly is), I will just say that I think the bigger issue is whether we (the citizens at large, not just you and me) can disagree with these drastic measures without those who think they are not wise being labeled as callous murderers.

The data that is coming in seems to indicate that this virus was here earlier than previously thought, is more widely spread than anticipated, there are more people walking around with antibodies than believed and the mortality rate is materially lower than some of the more pessimistic experts told us it would be.

There are legitimate questions that our nation needs to be open to considering - including whether quarantining healthy people is doing more harm than good.

 

[TheRealTruth]

It appears as more areas do antibody tests that we have FAR more infected that we thought and recovered dropping the mortality rate significantly.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

It appears as more areas do antibody tests that we have FAR more infected that we thought and recovered dropping the mortality rate significantly.

That would be great news, however, from a statistical point of view, there are a number of problems with the studies I'm familiar with. Definitely need to follow up on it more.

 

[TheRealTruth]

That would be great news, however, from a statistical point of view, there are a number of problems with the studies I'm familiar with. Definitely need to follow up on it more.

Cuomo is behind these numbers too.

Up to 2.7 Million in New York May Have Been Infected, Antibody Study Finds

Preliminary results from New York’s first coronavirus antibody study show nearly 14 percent tested positive, meaning they had the virus at some point and recovered, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Thursday. That equates to 2.7 million infections statewide — more than 10 times the state’s confirmed cases...

www.nbcnewyork.com

 

[zztop]

some white people protesting with signs about "prolonged lockdown is slavery"


I've also seen some protestors with "my body my choice -maga2020" signs. Which is such an absurd oxymoron
smh

 

[JimEverett]

Cuomo is behind these numbers too.

Up to 2.7 Million in New York May Have Been Infected, Antibody Study Finds

Preliminary results from New York’s first coronavirus antibody study show nearly 14 percent tested positive, meaning they had the virus at some point and recovered, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Thursday. That equates to 2.7 million infections statewide — more than 10 times the state’s confirmed cases...

www.nbcnewyork.com

Interestingly, if the 2.7m figure is true then NY's death rate would be 0.7% - which was the upper limit of what China was saying the death rate was outside of Wuhan. At least China was saying that am month ago.

 

[Beach Friends]

some white people protesting with signs about "prolonged lockdown is slavery"


I've also seen some protestors with "my body my choice -maga2020" signs. Which is such an absurd oxymoron
smh

Lol, I suspect most of the people who are deeply offended by that don't routinely go 24 hours without calling someone "literally Hitler."

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Cuomo is behind these numbers too.

Up to 2.7 Million in New York May Have Been Infected, Antibody Study Finds

Preliminary results from New York’s first coronavirus antibody study show nearly 14 percent tested positive, meaning they had the virus at some point and recovered, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Thursday. That equates to 2.7 million infections statewide — more than 10 times the state’s confirmed cases...

www.nbcnewyork.com

Yes, I saw that as well, and as I said, that would be great news if it holds up.

 

[JimEverett]

Yes, I saw that as well, and as I said, that would be great news if it holds up.

Let's hope its true

It also seems in line with the German study from Gangelt - one of the epicenters of the disease. After testing roughly 80% of the population they found a fatality rate of 0.4%

Such a rate is still very high, but obviously tremendously better than 3% or more that has been discussed.

 

[Farb]

$500 first 'offense' of opening your own business.

some white people protesting with signs about "prolonged lockdown is slavery"


I've also seen some protestors with "my body my choice -maga2020" signs. Which is such an absurd oxymoron
smh

What if some 'black people' was holding the sign instead of 'white people', would the message be more correct?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Let's hope its true

It also seems in line with the German study from Gangelt - one of the epicenters of the disease. After testing roughly 80% of the population they found a fatality rate of 0.4%

Such a rate is still very high, but obviously tremendously better than 3% or more that has been discussed.

Definitely better, although I think most epidemiologists said the mortality rate for this was going to be between 0.5% and 2%, at least that's what I was using as the estimate. I didn't see too many predicting a 3% mortality rate unless the hospital system was overwhelmed, in which case I saw as high as 4%. With the high end coming into play if everyone got sick at once and overwhelmed the hospital center which would drive the mortality rate higher (although I think that needs to be reevaluated as well, since it appears that once they get to the ventilator stage, prognosis is already dim, so it might not make a difference to mortality rate if we run out of ventilators, or we need to be able to determine where it will have the highest degree of success).

The downside to the virus being more widespread is that it probably means that it is much more contagious than previously thought. Which still means it running through the population before we reach herd immunity (at 80% or higher of the population). Even at a 0.7% mortality rate, this still means something like 1.8 million deaths before herd immunity is reached - or if it is as infectious as the measles we'd need 95% of the population infected to reach herd immunity (2.2 million deaths).

So, it's still pretty devastating, but the policy implications are pretty different. If it is slower spreading but higher mortality, then we can probably keep the viral infections manageable with testing and contact tracing, and banning some high crowd activities (festivals, live sports, etc). However, if it is super fast spreading with a lower mortality, the only way to keep it manageable would be to do these types of strict lockdowns. Which is not feasible for a year.

 

[zztop]

What if some 'black people' was holding the sign instead of 'white people', would the message be more correct?

no, it isn't correct. The guy in the video is clueless and stupid, like this question

 

[zztop]

Lol, I suspect most of the people who are deeply offended by that don't routinely go 24 hours without calling someone "literally Hitler."

who said anything about offended. it is just stupid people, thinking stupid things, and acting stupidly. false equivalency comparing it to slavery, but hey if they want to go out and do w/e and get sick and die, more power to them. "thoughts and prayers" and all that bullshirt that people say when some kids get gunned down. you know the drill

 

[SystemShock]

$500 first 'offense' of opening your own business.

What if some 'black people' was holding the sign instead of 'white people', would the message be more correct?

It's very stupid to compare a lockdown to slavery.

 

[Optimus Prime]

$500 first 'offense' of opening your own business.

What if some 'black people' was holding the sign instead of 'white people', would the message be more correct?

Odds that some black people would hold up a sign saying “this lockdown is like slavery all over again”?

I think they’re pretty low