All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (11 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[Heathen]

As many people accused of blaming Trump for everything that goes wrong (and there are those people), can we also admit that there are those en masse who will turn a blind eye or find a way through mental gymnastics to defend quite literally everything he does? Even go as far as to use their religion to try and validate him? (large percentage of Trump supporters).

I mean it's a rhetorical question, but I wanted to see if we could level a bit on here.

 

[bdb13]

I’m curious where you are getting your timeline?

Because by January 22 the WHO was holding daily briefings emphasizing the risk of spread across the world. And as others have said, WHO is only allowed to go where they are invited, can only go off information they are given. I’m not gonna say their positions were always 100% correct, but there is ultimately no basis for this other than the obvious, which is Trump attempting to blame shift. And if we are criticizing WHO for not publicly calling out China or because they should have known better to trust them, that kind of also opens the door to having to call us out as well, since we also made a mockery early in the process. But I am guessing Trump wouldnot be too cool with WHO holding conferences to say the American response has been an utter failure and Trump is lying to the public.

As an Ironic side note, the period being used toward this fodder was at the same time Trump was praising China for having gotten the virus under control because China told him so.

This was tweeted January 14:

This is what he's talking about:

And I'm not saying Trump is correct in pulling funding, I just find that Tweet to be curious.

 

[not2rich]

As many people accused of blaming Trump for everything that goes wrong (and there are those people), can we also admit that there are those en masse who will turn a blind eye or find a way through mental gymnastics to defend quite literally everything he does? Even go as far as to use their religion to try and validate him? (large percentage of Trump supporters).

I mean it's a rhetorical question, but I wanted to see if we could level a bit on here.

I believe you're engaging in what some would call a whataboutism. Usually a label thrown about to avoid defending double standards and hypocrisy.

 

[samiam5211]

If Trump was smart, he would tell those protestors in Michigan to cool it, or at least protest virtually.

By November he will be saying his base was disproportionately impacted by the Chinese virus, just as the Democrats and communists (behind the back of his good friend president Xi) planned.

 

[efil4]

Specifically? No.
Generally, I was alluding to strange behaviors during presidential election years. There have been many, many examples.
The Election of 1828 probably takes the cake.

• John Quincy Adams accused Andrew Jackson of murder while serving as a military officer for executing deserters.
• Andrew Jackson accused John Quincy Adams of having been a pimp while serving as a diplomat in Russia.
• Jackson was accused of adultery and vilified for running off with another man’s wife, and his wife was accused of bigamy because her divorce 40 years earlier had not been finalized.
• Jackson's wife, Rachel, suffered a heart attack and died before the inauguration,
• Jackson won the election of 1828, and his administration got off to a bitter beginning when Adams refused to attend his inauguration.
• Rowdy inauguration celebrations led to fist fights and damages in the White House.

No need to throw in race baiting comments as a component of this discussion. Geez.

So we are back in the 1800s??

MAGA indeed.

That wasnt race baiting DD, that was pure truth. And you know it. I never said you, but you know darn well there would have been.

 

[efil4]

Yes, that is what I am saying. It's not surprising, the chairman of the WHO was known for covering up cholera outbreaks when he was in the Ethiopian government.

I posted an interview with a WHO official here a while back where the official first pretended that he did not hear a question about Taiwan and then when the interviewer said, "well let me repeat it," he responded, "no, let's just go on to another question."

The organization ignored warnings from Taiwan. This game they are playing about pretending Taiwan is not an independent state in order to satisfy the CCP isn't a lot of fun when it means they are neglecting their responsibilities.

Rather than just reflexively turning the conversation to whatabouttrump, it seems like we can give some actual consideration to whether this organization is worth it. Not just in terms of money - which they squander on accommodations for their staff rather on disease control. More importantly, the opportunity cost of having them pretend to perform a vital function they are not actually performing.

You had several opportunities to reply to his question and each time, ignored it.

Why?

 

[N.O.Bronco]

This was tweeted January 14:


And I'm not saying Trump is correct in pulling funding, I just find that Tweet to be curious.

No, I get that, point being that within 4 days they had seemingly drastically changed their posture as they received new information. But as the conversation has gone amongst the thread so far, it almost implies that tweet happened and WHO just kept that position for an outsized amount of time. When it doesnt seem to be the case.

It’s certainly fair to take a snapshot and look at the decision-making tree that led to that particular position at that moment, at the same time, I think it’s also necessary to look at the whole picture and kind of put the situation into a broader context and ask some larger questions about how a neutral organization should handle these situations. I asked the timeline because I genuinely am not certain.

From what I have gathered and read WHO is largely beholden to what intel a country gives out and what access they are given(and if my reading is correct, China did not give them access til late January/early February). The tweet does state it is the Chinese authorities making this claim, and I will link below their tweets from that day through the rest of January. Where they do circle back the same day and simply state they dont have conclusive information of human to human contact but are monitoring, though are simultaneously and constantly telling people to do all the things you would be doing if it is human to human contact to avoid early spread.

And, when you start laying the timeline down next to what we did at the federal level as our first case arrived in late January, it’s quite shocking and enraging. We essentially talked out both sides about China and not only did nothing, but actively dressed down the concerns of the global community and experts and encouraged non-compliance. So to now turn around and point the finger at an organization failing to be perfect while we failed to even show up seems rather absurd. Especially when the concerns seem to be coming once again from those that have been incapable of being honest and acknowledging where every one of their condenmnations apply just as much to the person they are refusing to condemn.

(from:WHO) until:2020-01-31 since:2020-01-14 - Twitter Search

On Jan 29 @WHO tweeted: "🚨 BREAKING 🚨 https://t.co/5oGSOIEQnJ" - read what others are saying and join the conversation.

twitter.com

 

[Beach Friends]

You had several opportunities to reply to his question and each time, ignored it.

Why?

Seriously? Do you think that every time somewhere around here tries to derail the conversation to OMB that I am going to pivot on demand?

I can't believe I am having to explain that.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

Speaking to the latter part of my eventual rant:

A Timeline Of Coronavirus Comments From President Trump And WHO

How did the president respond to key moments during the pandemic? And how did representatives of the World Health Organization respond during the same period?

www.npr.org

Some highlights:


Jan. 24
In a tweet, Trump praised China for its efforts to prevent the spread of the virus. "China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!"

Jan. 29
Dr. Mike Ryan, head of the WHO's Health Emergencies Programme, said, "The whole world needs to be on alert now. The whole world needs to take action and be ready for any cases that come from the epicenter or other epicenter that becomes established."

Jan. 30
At a campaign rally in Iowa, Trump talked about the U.S. partnership with China to control the disease. "We only have five people. Hopefully, everything's going to be great. They have somewhat of a problem, but hopefully, it's all going to be great. But we're working with China, just so you know, and other countries very, very closely. So it doesn't get out of hand."
Tedros announced that the outbreak had become a "public health emergency of international concern over the global outbreak of novel coronavirus."

Feb. 2
In an interview with Sean Hannity, Trump said, "We pretty much shut it down coming in from China." His executive order banning anyone who has been in China in the previous 14 days — with exceptions, including for U.S. citizens, lawful permanent residents and their close family members — went into effect.

Feb. 4
At a WHO briefing, Tedros urged that there be no travel bans. "We reiterate our call to all countries not to impose restrictions that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade. Such restrictions can have the effect of increasing fear and stigma, with little public health benefit. ... Where such measures have been implemented, we urge that they are short in duration, proportionate to the public health risks and are reconsidered regularly as the situation evolves."


Feb. 10
At a campaign rally in Manchester, N.H., Trump said: "Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away. I hope that's true. But we're doing great in our country. China, I spoke with President Xi, and they're working very, very hard. And I think it's going to all work out fine."

Feb. 11
At a WHO briefing, Tedros urged world leaders to give priority to containing the virus: "To be honest, a virus is more powerful in creating political, economic and social upheaval than any terrorist attack. A virus can have more powerful consequences than any terrorist action, and that's true. If the world doesn't want to wake up and consider this enemy virus as Public Enemy Number 1, I don't think we will learn our lessons."

Feb. 13
In an interview with Geraldo Rivera, Trump characterized the threat of the virus in the U.S. by saying: "In our country, we only have, basically, 12 cases, and most of those people are recovering and some cases fully recovered. So it's actually less."

Feb. 24
In a tweet, Trump wrote, "The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!"


Feb. 26
In a news conference, Trump said: "When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."

Feb. 28
The WHO raises the global risk of the coronavirus from "high" to "very high."



........................




April 14
"Today I am instructing my administration to halt funding of the World Health Organization while a review is conducted to assess the World Health Organization's role in severely mismanaging and covering up the spread of the coronavirus," Trump said in a briefing at the White House.

 

[V Chip]

I remember Republicans complaining about signage the Obama Administration had required indicating "a symbol of President Obama’s commitment to the American People to invest their tax dollars wisely to put Americans back to work." Democrats seemed fine with it then. Some Republicans objected.

Now, suddenly, some Democrats see something similar as indicative of some sort of almost criminal narcissistic personality trait. LMAO - you cannot make this stuff up.

*You* remember? Or you read it on some website that "remembered" and now you're memory is refreshed?

And comparing this (signs marking new projects funded by the ARRA) to changing an existing process to put Trump's meaningless vanity signature on federal checks is a huge reach. Not that it isn't expected from Trump apologists, but still...

 

[V Chip]

And, as repeatedly pointed out in press conferences yesterday, we donate 10 times as much to WHO as China does, so you think we'd get a little more respect?

Maybe because we took 2/3 of our CDC staff out of China at the behest of Trump over the last two years, thus didn't have enough personnel on the ground in China to be able to conduct competitive testing and research to provide another analysis?

 

[V Chip]

Oh man, that would have been a good one. We need more whataboutrumpisms around here.

Oh stop it. Your constant whining about "Whataboutisms" is getting "Whataboutannoying."

 

[not2rich]

Oh stop it. Your constant whining about "Whataboutisms" is getting "Whataboutannoying."

He's like a broken record with that, and when he whips it out it means he has no other response.

 

[Beach Friends]

Oh stop it. Your constant whining about "Whataboutisms" is getting "Whataboutannoying."

I know what to do about that. Surprised I haven't done it already.

 

[Humperdoo]

2 Wuhan whistleblowers missing months after helping expose coronavirus outbreak, activists say

Amid tightening controls on information in China, two citizen journalists reporting on the coronavirus pandemic in Wuhan disappeared in February, according to a report, and months later, activists say the whistleblowers are still missing. Armed with smart phones and social media accounts...

www.foxnews.com

 

[surada]

Won't be fooled again.

The WHO reported that on January 14th.

WHO haunted by January tweet saying China found no human transmission of coronavirus

In a January tweet, the World Health Organization (WHO) cited Chinese health officials who claimed there had been no human transmissions of the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) within the country yet.

www.foxnews.com

Trump cut the CDC as well.

CDC confirms first human-to-human transmission of coronavirus ...
www.cnbc.com/2020/01/30/cdc-confirms-first-human...
Jan 30, 2020 · The transmission makes the U.S. at least the fifth country where the infection is now spreading through human-to-human contact, including China. ... increase in cases and the evidence of human-to ...

 

[surada]

I don't think that article is saying what you think it is saying, or else you find;t read the article Farb posted that you seem to disagree.

Jusr because the KOS is biased doesn't make the article untrue.

 

[surada]

Maybe because we took 2/3 of our CDC staff out of China at the behest of Trump over the last two years, thus didn't have enough personnel on the ground in China to be able to conduct competitive testing and research to provide another analysis?

Trump should brag about gutting the CDC in his next press conference..