All Things LGBTQ+ (5 Viewers)

[Farb]

Didn't really see a place for this so I thought I would start a thread about all things LGBTQ since this is a pretty hot topic in our culture right now

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/sup...y-that-refuses-to-work-with-lgbt-couples.html

• The Supreme Court on Thursday delivered a unanimous defeat to LGBT couples in a high-profile case over whether Philadelphia could refuse to contract with a Roman Catholic adoption agency that says its religious beliefs prevent it from working with same-sex foster parents.
• Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption.

I will admit, I was hopeful for this decision by the SCOTUS but I was surprised by the unanimous decision.

While I don't think there is anything wrong, per se, with same sex couples adopting and raising children (I actually think it is a good thing as it not an abortion) but I also did not want to see the state force a religious institution to bend to a societal norm.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Before I started taking hormones, I socially transitioned — that is, I cut my hair short, began wearing men's clothes, and bought a pair of more-masculine glasses. Doing this was supposed to help me feel more like myself. But ironically, my first forays into the world of male gender expression made me feel more invisible, instead of less.

I wore blue dress shirts, suspenders, dress pants, and men's work boots, but I was still read as a woman whenever I walked into a restaurant or store. It was incredibly frustrating to constantly hear variations of, "How you doing, ma'am?" when I thought it was obvious I wasn't a "ma'am."

That all changed when I went to Marshalls one day to buy some more men's shirts. After grabbing as many button-down shirts and men's pants as I was allowed to try on, I went to the fitting rooms.

This store had one fitting area, with the men's fitting booths to the right and the women's to the left. A clerk was sitting at a desk directing traffic and holding on to returned items. She looked up as I approached and told me, "Men's room is to the right."

It's hard to describe the effect those words had on me. For the first time in my life, someone recognized me as the man I was. I didn't have to debate over whether to correct somebody or let it go, nor did I have to seethe in silence or drive my friends up the wall ranting about how I'd been misgendered again. Someone saw me — not the person that society had conditioned them to believe that I was but the person I really was.

This experience of being seen had such a profound influence on me that I still remember it over a decade later.

Until that experience, I always had an extreme reaction to being misgendered. It happened all the time, and it never failed to upset me.

It also exhausted me. Whenever I went out in public, it triggered a battle within me. I had to decide every time it happened — sometimes multiple times during the same day — whether to speak up or remain silent. Neither choice felt good. Even if I asked someone to call me "sir," it didn't give me the visibility I craved; it just made things awkward. It wasn't as if they'd seen me. They were just trying to be polite and refer to me the way I asked.

But after my interaction with the clerk, it didn't matter to me as much if everyone saw me for who I was. The cashier misgendered me when I bought the clothes, and it didn't faze me because someone else had seen me, and that's what counted.

Being seen for the first time gave me hope. I'd lived in the world as the woman I wasn't for 33 years, and when I finally decided to be myself, it was painful to realize that people didn't automatically see me that way. The more I got misgendered, the more convinced I became that I would never be seen as the man I was. That left me feeling depressed, angry, and hopeless.

That all changed, thanks to that clerk gendering me correctly.............

MSN

 

[coldseat]

Clearly all of that is the fault of the LBGTQ+ community.

Drag Queen story hour is at fault for the sexualization of children, lol.

 

[SystemShock]

Clearly all of that is the fault of the LBGTQ+ community.

Drag Queen story hour is at fault for the sexualization of children, lol.

The point of that piece was that children are being used as pawns in adults' culture wars, with no actual thought for the children.

 

[coldseat]

The point of that piece was that children are being used as pawns in adults' culture wars, with no actual thought for the children.

The video doesn't make that point well but I would agree. The only that is that it's the right wing that is doing that, not the LGBTQ+ community.

Also, if that's the point, then the video deserves it's own thread. No need to conflate LGBTQ+ community with the culture war surrounding of children.

 

[SystemShock]

The video doesn't make that point well but I would agree. The only that is that it's the right wing that is doing that, not the LGBTQ+ community.

But they are. You just don't want to recognize it. Since you mention drag queens, Maher is right: drag queen reading hour is not for the children's benefit, it's for the drag queens' benefit.

 

[coldseat]

But they are. You just don't want to recognize it. Since you mention drag queens, Maher is right: drag queen reading hour is not for the children's benefit, it's for the drag queens' benefit.

What percentage of children have ever been to a drag queen story hour? 0.1% by the choice of and with their parents (because I assume children aren't going to those alone). But that's the child sexualization we need to worry about.

This is why I roll my eyes at this stupid stuff.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

But they are. You just don't want to recognize it. Since you mention drag queens, Maher is right: drag queen reading hour is not for the children's benefit, it's for the drag queens' benefit.

I've been, and the event was to the benefit of all who attended not just the drag queens.

 

[CoolBrees]

Hmm, which story hours are for the kids? I mean, how can you tell?

Are all story times for the benefit of the person reading? If so, what is the benefit? Altruism? Something sinister?

What is the criteria for a story time to be beneficial to the child? Must the person be straight, or just present as such? What about ex-con reading hour? Is that ok? What about white collar criminals? What about is it was a straight person story time? Is that better? What if the Queen came without her makeup? Is it ok then? How much makeup is too much?

Who is the benefit when the librarian reads? That is their job so they are benefiting if the are reading or not. Is there something more valuable with how they read?

This is just a taking point looking for an argument

 

[MT15]

But they are. You just don't want to recognize it. Since you mention drag queens, Maher is right: drag queen reading hour is not for the children's benefit, it's for the drag queens' benefit.

And you know this how?

 

[SystemShock]

And you know this how?

It should be obvious.

 

[SystemShock]

Hmm, which story hours are for the kids? I mean, how can you tell?

Are all story times for the benefit of the person reading? If so, what is the benefit? Altruism? Something sinister?

What is the criteria for a story time to be beneficial to the child? Must the person be straight, or just present as such? What about ex-con reading hour? Is that ok? What about white collar criminals? What about is it was a straight person story time? Is that better? What if the Queen came without her makeup? Is it ok then? How much makeup is too much?

Who is the benefit when the librarian reads? That is their job so they are benefiting if the are reading or not. Is there something more valuable with how they read?

This is just a taking point looking for an argument

Before you run out of what abouts... what's the point of having specifically drag queens read to children? Do they bring something to the table that others don't?

 

[SystemShock]

What percentage of children have ever been to a drag queen story hour? 0.1% by the choice of and with their parents (because I assume children aren't going to those alone). But that's the child sexualization we need to worry about.

This is why I roll my eyes at this stupid stuff.

The video is 8:39 minute long, yet it only spends ~20 seconds on drag queens. Why are you so focused on drag queens?

 

[MT15]

It should be obvious.

What about athletes or celebrities, are they also uncaring about the children and just doing story hours for themselves?

 

[LA - L.A.]

...what's the point of having specifically drag queens read to children?

What's the point of specifically not having them read to children?

Do they bring something to the table that others don't?

Every individual brings their individual uniqueness to the table?

Children being read to by Peyton Manning are going to have a different experience than if they are read to by Tom Brady, even though both are Hall of Fame quarterbacks.

What's the justification for telling a male, that dresses the same way that some people think only females should dress, that they don't bring anything to the table?

The default should be to include and respect all people equally. Including and accepting all people equally doesn't need to be justified. That's the foundational premise of our entire society, even if the founding fathers didn't do it perfectly.

Anyone arguing for the exclusion or rejection of anyone has the burden of justifying why that person should be excluded or rejected. If they don't give any forthright justification, it's because there isn't any reasonable justification for excluding or rejecting the people they want excluded or rejected.

Don't let them steer a discussion towards putting you own the defensive to justify why someone should be included and accepted.

 

[SystemShock]

What about athletes or celebrities, are they also uncaring about the children and just doing story hours for themselves?

Well, it depends... they surely could do it just as PR stunts... but also, athletes are public figures. Kids cheer for them, see them on TV, look up to them, try to emulate them,... so, very basic example, DeMario Davis goes to a public school and reads to kids... a few of them would probably think to themselves "boy, DeMario likes to read, I want to read like DeMario".

And there are a lot of athletes who do this quietly.

 

[MT15]

Well, it depends... they surely could do it just as PR stunts... but also, athletes are public figures. Kids cheer for them, see them on TV, look up to them, try to emulate them,... so, very basic example, DeMario Davis goes to a public school and reads to kids... a few of them would probably think to themselves "boy, DeMario likes to read, I want to read like DeMario".

And there are a lot of athletes who do this quietly.

Yes, I agree and I would also contend there were drag queens doing it quietly. Until the far right found out about it and made it into a culture war issue. It isn’t hard to believe that people who tend to be theatrical would want to do readings for an audience of children and their parents.

Also, I don’t think drag queens are necessarily trans, are they? Or even homosexual?

I don’t think drag queens started doing story hours to vex the right, they were already doing them and nobody cared until extremists made it into an issue.

It could be that there are some drag queens who started doing story hour after the right raised a stink just to vex the right. I wouldn’t blame them, just like I don’t blame athletes who are doing it for the publicity. At the end of the day reading is promoted to children, so who cares?

 

[coldseat]

The video is 8:39 minute long, yet it only spends ~20 seconds on drag queens. Why are you so focused on drag queens?

Because you posted the video in the LGBTQ+ thread.

 

[coldseat]

Yes, I agree and I would also contend there were drag queens doing it quietly. Until the far right found out about it and made it into a culture war issue. It isn’t hard to believe that people who tend to be theatrical would want to do readings for an audience of children and their parents.

Also, I don’t think drag queens are necessarily trans, are they? Or even homosexual?

I don’t think drag queens started doing story hours to vex the right, they were already doing them and nobody cared until extremists made it into an issue.

It could be that there are some drag queens who started doing story hour after the right raised a stink just to vex the right. I wouldn’t blame them, just like I don’t blame athletes who are doing it for the publicity. At the end of the day reading is promoted to children, so who cares?

The point System Shock is trying to make is that it would make American society much happier and less angry if Drag Queens (and by extension trans, gay and other LGBTQ+ people) stayed hidden, out is sight, quiet and in the shadows. It makes "people" uncomfortable seeing Drag Queens do anything publicly, like read to children. In fact, LGBTQ+ people shouldn't do anything with children because all we will do is sexualize and moleste them.