2024 GOP Presidential Race (3 Viewers)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Many of Trump's endorsed candidates did not do well on Nov. 8th.
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Gov. Ron DeSantis DID do well.
He won convincingly.
Yet in this OP's opinion, Donald Trump is an egomaniac who is seemingly incapable of putting "Party over Self"
Trump has ZERO chance of being elected our next president.
In my opinion, if Trump would just shut up and go away (fat chance of that)...but "if" Trump did that, Gov. Ron DeSantis would have a CHANCE to be a formidable candidate for President in 2024.
Here is an interesting article on this topic...

Donald Trump warns Ron DeSantis against 2024 presidential bid as Republican rising star wins big

Donald Trump has warned Florida's Governor Ron DeSantis against running for president in 2024, saying doing so would harm the Republican Party.

www.scotsman.com

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What do any of you think re. Trump vs DeSantis?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Interesting read
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Ron DeSantis has continued his war on critical race theory by rejecting Advanced Placement African American history for supposedly advancing the tenets of this forbidden strain of thought. “Florida rejected an AP course filled with Critical Race Theory and other obvious violations of Florida law,” boasts Manny Diaz Jr., Florida’s commissar — sorry, commissioner — of education.

The irony is that critical race theory happens to be an excellent intellectual framework for understanding DeSantis himself.

Critical race theory is a framework of legal and social analysis that seeks to understand how racism can be perpetuated through formally race-neutral methods. CRT is explicitly an alternative to liberalism, and it has spawned many radical and (obviously, by definition) illiberal ideas and policies. Actions like speech codes and efforts to deplatform conservative speakers on campus are usually inspired by critical race theory.

But the theory has real value as a critique and provides insight into how a figure like DeSantis has carried out a systematic attack on African American political power without relying on bygone tools like de facto segregation.

I want to be very clear that I am not calling DeSantis a racist. There is no reason to believe he harbors any personal dislike toward Black people or believes they are genetically inferior or privately employs slurs or stereotypes. In 2018, he stirred up controversy by warning that electing his Black opponent as governor would “monkey it up” but insisted he had used the phrase thoughtlessly, rather than maliciously, and deserves the benefit of the doubt. (He did not use any other dog-whistle phrases for the rest of the campaign.)

What I am arguing instead is that DeSantis’s political ambitions have entailed disempowering Black citizens in his state in a calculated fashion. Most of these events took place before he had catapulted himself to the center of the national debate, and they received far less attention than his more recent culture-war thrusts. But they are at least as significant, if not more so.

The election that propelled DeSantis into the governorship also included a referendum to reenfranchise felons who had served their sentences. The disenfranchisement of felons is a method that, though formally neutral with regard to race, is closely intertwined with white supremacy.

Many states in the former Confederacy enacted lifetime bans on voting by ex-felons during and immediately after Reconstruction, when they were seeking ways to disenfranchise Black people without violating the 15th Amendment. This provision leveraged the judicial system, which prosecuted Black people at much higher rates than white people. As a result, as Brent Staples noted in 2014, Black people have been removed from the electorate at a rate four times higher than white people.

DeSantis’s answer to the referendum giving those ex-felons their voting rights back was deviously effective. He signed a measure requiring those former convicts wishing to vote to pay back any fines they owed the state. Obviously, as much as a person might take pride in voting, very few people are willing to pay large sums of money for the privilege, especially people coming out of a long prison term who are strapped for cash. (The state’s laxity in enforcing these payments from indigent ex-felons was what made the fine so effective: They generally didn’t have to pay anything unless they wanted to vote.)

Even more ingeniously, the state had no centralized system for recording fines, which meant that even those ex-felons willing to pay money to vote, and able to muster the funds to pay the poll tax, were generally unable to do so. The “fine” requirement simply tossed them into a bureaucratic maze in which there was no exit.

Last year, DeSantis strong-armed his party into enacting an aggressive new congressional map that dramatically reduced the representation of Black voters. Two districts that had elected Black Democrats to Congress were broken up and scattered. One district, populated by descendants of Black sharecroppers and slaves, was broken up into four pieces, each scattered into a mostly white, heavily Republican district in which the Black vote would have little influence.

It’s hardly uncommon for Republicans to reduce the influence of Black voters, but this was not merely a routine party measure. DeSantis had to twist the arms of fellow Republicans to go along with such an aggressive measure. “In meetings, he would just demand, ‘Pass my maps! My maps! My maps!’ He’s just bizarrely obsessed with this,” a Republican told Marc Caputo.

DeSantis hadn’t denied Black citizens in those districts the right to cast a ballot. They simply no longer had a realistic chance to be represented by a candidate who agreed with them...............

Ron DeSantis’s Long War on Black Political Power

 

[zztop]

Just posting this for the absurdity of it all. Apparently Huckabee has released similar items - for example: kids guide to cancel culture and free speech

 

[coldseat]

Just posting this for the absurdity of it all. Apparently Huckabee has released similar items - for example: kids guide to cancel culture and free speech

As with all things Republican's, if you really want to know what they're up to, look at what they complain about the most. The whole anti-Woke, anti-CRT and anti-LGBTQ+ campaigns are just a convenient foil and cover for them to institute their own social, educational and political indoctrination of our children.

It's a tactic that's worked for generations for right wingers in this country. The truly sad part is that moderates and independents continue to be highly influenced and consumed by right wing rhetoric, but will forever be suspicious and antagonistic of anything and everything liberal or progressive.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Yet another article of Rs removing their support from Trump
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An RNC Remade by Trump Backs Away From His 2024 Campaign

As former President Donald Trump prepares for his first public events since announcing his presidential campaign, dozens of members of the Republican Party’s governing body are expressing doubts about his ability to win back the White House and are calling for a competitive primary to produce a...

www.yahoo.com

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Trump advisors are shocked that they can't get Republicans to show up to his events, NYT reporter says

Donald Trump's campaign for the 2024 GOP presidential nomination has gotten off to a shaky start, with former allies declining to back him.

www.yahoo.com

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Yet another article of Rs removing their support from Trump
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An RNC Remade by Trump Backs Away From His 2024 Campaign

As former President Donald Trump prepares for his first public events since announcing his presidential campaign, dozens of members of the Republican Party’s governing body are expressing doubts about his ability to win back the White House and are calling for a competitive primary to produce a...

www.yahoo.com

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Trump advisors are shocked that they can't get Republicans to show up to his events, NYT reporter says

Donald Trump's campaign for the 2024 GOP presidential nomination has gotten off to a shaky start, with former allies declining to back him.

www.yahoo.com

Trump Fatigue in New Hampshire
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'Trump fatigue' in New Hampshire complicates 2024 White House bid

When Donald Trump trounced his Republican rivals in New Hampshire's 2016 primary, the stunning win announced to other states the reality TV showman was a serious contender. Trump went on to capture the Republican nomination and then the White House. But as the former president kicks off his...

news.yahoo.com

 

[superchuck500]

Trump stepping up the rhetoric on DeSantis.

 

[MT15]

Trump Fatigue in New Hampshire
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'Trump fatigue' in New Hampshire complicates 2024 White House bid

When Donald Trump trounced his Republican rivals in New Hampshire's 2016 primary, the stunning win announced to other states the reality TV showman was a serious contender. Trump went on to capture the Republican nomination and then the White House. But as the former president kicks off his...

news.yahoo.com

And yet, he still got his person elected to chair the RNC, several establishment Rs appeared at his rally in SC just the other day, and they have already endorsed him for president even though 2 SC natives are mulling running as well - Haley and Scott.

There’s a lot of wishcasting going on that Trump will just fade away. He won’t. Rs need to get rid of him, but they won’t. Never have, never will.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Donald Trump has sued Bob Woodward for a fraction less than $50m, claiming he did not agree to the veteran Washington Post reporter publishing tapes of their conversations as an audio book.

Woodward’s publisher, Simon & Schuster, and its parent company, Paramount Global, were also named as defendants.

The Trump Tapes was released in October 2022, under the subtitle Bob Woodward’s Twenty Interviews With President Donald Trump.

Amid generally positive reviews, the Guardian called the audiobook “a passport to the heart of darkness” of Trump’s presidency……

Donald Trump sues Bob Woodward over The Trump Tapes for $50m

Washington Post reporter and publisher Simon & Schuster say lawsuit ‘without merit … we will aggressively defend against it’

www.theguardian.com

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

And yet, he still got his person elected to chair the RNC, several establishment Rs appeared at his rally in SC just the other day, and they have already endorsed him for president even though 2 SC natives are mulling running as well - Haley and Scott.

There’s a lot of wishcasting going on that Trump will just fade away. He won’t. Rs need to get rid of him, but they won’t. Never have, never will.

"Never have, never will" is a catchy ending to your post.
I think "never will" won't work for you though.

 

[MT15]

"Never have, never will" is a catchy ending to your post.
I think "never will" won't work for you though.

What I mean by never will is the sort of accounting that Barry Goldwater demanded of Nixon, with the support of the party writ large. We still haven’t seen anything remotely like that - similar to the way Nancy Pelosi demanded Anthony Weiner’s resignation and got it more recently.

The Republican Party hasn‘t demanded accountability from Trump at any point. Even when he incited a seditious conspiracy against the peaceful transfer of power. Even when he used our serious foreign policy commitments as a bribe to enhance his political standing. Oh, we got empty words from a few of the Republican leaders, but no action. None at all.

What do you suppose will ever cause them to do more than just passively wish he would go away?

 

[superchuck500]

Donald Trump has sued Bob Woodward for a fraction less than $50m, claiming he did not agree to the veteran Washington Post reporter publishing tapes of their conversations as an audio book.

Woodward’s publisher, Simon & Schuster, and its parent company, Paramount Global, were also named as defendants.

The Trump Tapes was released in October 2022, under the subtitle Bob Woodward’s Twenty Interviews With President Donald Trump.

Amid generally positive reviews, the Guardian called the audiobook “a passport to the heart of darkness” of Trump’s presidency……

Donald Trump sues Bob Woodward over The Trump Tapes for $50m

Washington Post reporter and publisher Simon & Schuster say lawsuit ‘without merit … we will aggressively defend against it’

www.theguardian.com

I think that’s a really interesting intellectual property case. It looks like there was no written agreement, only an exchange of stated intentions. Copyright ownership of a recorded interview is apparently not a settled question.

I question the ND-FLA venue though.

Who Owns an Interview? Insights into Copyright Cases - IBPA

Interviews are frequently an important element of a book, and copyright law permits an author to automatically claim copyright ownership and protection for an “original” work. Does an interview qualify as a copyrightable work? If the answer is yes, who owns an interview–the interviewee or...

articles.ibpa-online.org

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

What I mean by never will is the sort of accounting that Barry Goldwater demanded of Nixon, with the support of the party writ large. We still haven’t seen anything remotely like that - similar to the way Nancy Pelosi demanded Anthony Weiner’s resignation and got it more recently.

The Republican Party hasn‘t demanded accountability from Trump at any point. Even when he incited a seditious conspiracy against the peaceful transfer of power. Even when he used our serious foreign policy commitments as a bribe to enhance his political standing. Oh, we got empty words from a few of the Republican leaders, but no action. None at all.

What do you suppose will ever cause them to do more than just passively wish he would go away?

Trump is not holding any office. Republican can't call for his resignation....remove him from WHAT?
The Ds have failed to get him legally ineligible to run.
He has been accused of many things....pre Jan 6th...Jan. 6th itself....then post Jan 6th-classified documents at his private residence....and yet he is still eligible to run for President?
Why?
Don't you Ds have competent lawyers?
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I'm thinking : WHO SPECIFICALLY do you want to take action against Trump?
What is his or her name?
...and what specific action should this Republican do in reference to this private citizen named Donald Trump?

 

[MT15]

Trump is not holding any office. republican can call for his resignation.
The Ds have failed to get him legally ineligible to run.
He been accused of many things....pre Jan 6th...Jan. 6th itself....classified documents at his private residence....and yet he is still eligible to run for President?
Why?
Don't you Ds have competent lawyers?

Weak sauce.

Rs could certainly get together and denounce his candidacy as a party and prevent him from using their Party in his desperate attempt to regain power.

The fact is that his conviction of a crime wouldn’t legally prevent him from running for President. Or even serving, I think. The only thing that would have made him ineligible that was on the table was his potential conviction in the Senate during impeachment. Tell me how democrats are responsible for his acquittal, Steve.

You just cannot deflect from the Rs complete inability to hold their elected representatives responsible for crimes and misdeeds. Just look at Santos.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Weak sauce.

Rs could certainly get together and denounce his candidacy as a party and prevent him from using their Party in his desperate attempt to regain power.

The fact is that his conviction of a crime wouldn’t legally prevent him from running for President. Or even serving, I think. The only thing that would have made him ineligible that was on the table was his potential conviction in the Senate during impeachment. Tell me how democrats are responsible for his acquittal, Steve.

You just cannot deflect from the Rs complete inability to hold their elected representatives responsible for crimes and misdeeds. Just look at Santos.

WHO should do WHAT?
The Rs are not currently meeting as a party to select anyone.
He cannot be impeached or removed from office....because He has no office.
Numerous Republicans have come out against him but there is no specific action that can be taken.
The party will eventually select someone and then we will see what the party does.
As for now, your once a month statements that the Rs are doing nothing are simply annoying.
He had been accused of so many things for so many years but this private citizen seems to be like teflon.
Annoyingly nothing sticks.

 

[SFIDC3]

WHO should do WHAT?
The Rs are not currently meeting as a party to select anyone.
He cannot be impeached or removed from office....because He has no office.
Numerous Republicans have come out against him but there is no specific action that can be taken.
The party will eventually select someone and then we will see what the party does.
As for now, your once a month statements that the Rs are doing nothing are simply annoying.
He had been accused of so many things for so many years but this private citizen seems to be like teflon.
Annoyingly nothing sticks.

You have got to be absolutely joking with this BS.....your own precious R party refuses to do anything about Trump except prop him up because most of them are either scared to death of him or worship him as some kind of cringy deity.....because they are cowards or delusional or authoritarians....that is what most of your party has become.....and your response is what have the D's done? That is about as disingenuous as one can be.....

At this point I hope Trump fractures and destroys the R party, it is certainly what they deserve.....

 

[superchuck500]

Trump is not holding any office. Republican can't call for his resignation....remove him from WHAT?
The Ds have failed to get him legally ineligible to run.
He has been accused of many things....pre Jan 6th...Jan. 6th itself....then post Jan 6th-classified documents at his private residence....and yet he is still eligible to run for President?
Why?
Don't you Ds have competent lawyers?

Eligibility to be president is set forth in the Constitution. Criminal conviction is not a disqualification. The only possible source of disqualification comes from the "insurrection or rebellion" clause from Section 3 of the 14th Amendment that Congress codified in 18 USC Sec. 2383. It has never been applied to conduct of a president and there is substantial question among legal scholars as to whether it could actually disqualify a person to be president. It would ultimately involve an interpretation by the Supreme Court of whether the clause in the 14th Amendment was meant to amend the qualifications for president in Article II.

So your question is really "why haven't the Democrats been able to apply a completely novel charge against an ex-president in the hope of having his action while in office to undo the 2020 election found by a criminal jury to be assisting in an insurrection, for the purposes of presenting to the Supreme Court the question of whether Article II presidential eligibility is modified by the insurrection clause in the 14th Amendment?"

I hope you understand that the answer isn't "incompetent lawyers."

 

[MT15]

WHO should do WHAT?
The Rs are not currently meeting as a party to select anyone.
He cannot be impeached or removed from office....because He has no office.
Numerous Republicans have come out against him but there is no specific action that can be taken.
The party will eventually select someone and then we will see what the party does.
As for now, your once a month statements that the Rs are doing nothing are simply annoying.
He had been accused of so many things for so many years but this private citizen seems to be like teflon.
Annoyingly nothing sticks.

The RNC should condemn this man, declare that he will NOT be the 2024 nominee because he is unfit for office. They can do this in private, like Goldwater rallied the party to go tell Nixon he was through. They should send a delegation to Florida and tell Trump he’s finished as a republican because he has brought shame on the party. Is that clear enough?

This passively wishing he will go away is weak. They should expel him.

The truth can be pretty annoying when it calls for action, huh?

 

[superchuck500]

The RNC should condemn this man, declare that he will NOT be the 2024 nominee because he is unfit for office. They can do this in private, like Goldwater rallied the party to go tell Nixon he was through. They should send a delegation to Florida and tell Trump he’s finished as a republican because he has brought shame on the party. Is that clear enough?

This passively wishing he will go away is weak. They should expel him.

The truth can be pretty annoying when it calls for action, huh?

I do think it's more complicated than that. All Goldwater did with Nixon was convince him that he simply did not have the votes in the Senate to survive an impeachment trial. Even then, Nixon said he would resign but then changed his mind and Goldwater then went back and told him the votes were even fewer by that point.

The party's nominee is determined by the primary process - which isn't simply up to the whim of the party, I don't think (edit - indeed primary rules are set by state law, and based on a process of the candidates winning delegates through the primary process). I think it's tricky (impossible?) to just announce that a candidate will be refused. Plus in this situation, the candidate is quite popular with the parties constituency - so there's that.

I think the most realistic thing anyone in the party can do is simply refuse to support the person, encourage others to do the same, and work behind the scenes on the campaign donation part of it to try to steer donations away from the candidate. But you're totally right that most of the party seem unwilling to do that publicly, even if they believe it privately or even do it privately.

They still think there's too much political risk for them - and so they're cowards about it.