2020 democrat primary Debate Part 4 (October 15) (1 Viewer)

[wardorican]

Democrats zero in on Elizabeth Warren at debate

In one of the biggest confrontations, Buttigieg and O'Rourke sparred over guns

www.cbsnews.com

Debate night.

What are you looking to see/hear?

Do you think we will get any new substance?

Will Warren keep building on her polling gains? Is Biden going to rebound or falter?

Personally, I'm not overly excited about CNN running another debate. I think they will focus on gotchas, sound bytes, and shiny objects. I'd like some substance out of this one, but that's probably asking for a lot.

 

[lurk]

It's just my opinion and I doubt anyone else in the country will share my opinion, but I liked Pete until last night. I understand he's in political survival mode, but I thought he was being a passive aggressive jerk all night.

Like the gun control moment with Beto. I don't see how anything Beto said could be interpreted as Beto trying to "teach a lesson in courage" to Pete. It seems like a prepared statement that Pete was waiting to unload on someone. It seemed really forced and pretentious to me.

He also spent a lot more time telling other people that their plans wouldn't work, than he did explaining the details of his plans and why they would work. After last night, I see him as more calculating and conniving, than I see him as thoughtful. I really hope he doesn't get the nomination, because I do not want to vote for him.

I didn't see any of the debate, but his strength is ability to listen and respond in a thoughtful, pragmatic way to a problem/situation. Moving away from that, if that's what he's doing, would seem to be an enormous mistake, imo.

 

[Beach Friends]

I didn't see any of the debate, but his strength is ability to listen and respond in a thoughtful, pragmatic way to a problem/situation. Moving away from that, if that's what he's doing, would seem to be an enormous mistake, imo.

Every pundit I have heard has expressed the opinion that it was Pete's best performance, and they are looking for him to move up in the polling.

He did take a swing at Beto, but you can't blame him for taking advantage of low hanging fruit.

 

[wardorican]

He wasn't reframing the questions. He was saying -instead of spending time on this subject, we should be talking about (an entirely different topic).

I never said that is what he was or wasn't doing. I simply stated my preferences and what I don't mind, and why.

 

[V Chip]

It's just my opinion and I doubt anyone else in the country will share my opinion, but I liked Pete until last night. I understand he's in political survival mode, but I thought he was being a passive aggressive jerk all night.

Like the gun control moment with Beto. I don't see how anything Beto said could be interpreted as Beto trying to "teach a lesson in courage" to Pete. It seems like a prepared statement that Pete was waiting to unload on someone. It seemed really forced and pretentious to me.

He also spent a lot more time telling other people that their plans wouldn't work, than he did explaining the details of his plans and why they would work. After last night, I see him as more calculating and conniving, than I see him as thoughtful. I really hope he doesn't get the nomination, because I do not want to vote for him.

This is exactly me (except for the nomination part -- I'd be fine voting for him, but prefer other candidates much more). He is a very good orator, and he is obviously intelligent and well-spoken and those are great traits.

But to me, he speaks in generalities and lacks actual substance so far. His website has plans but oddly, given his comments on others' plans not being viable or detailed, they lack a lot of detail themselves. As you said, he hasn't talked much about what his plans do or why they are better. I know these things seem to resonate more with voters (judging by the general view that he did very well in the debate, when I had him as middle-of-the-pack) but he seemed disingenuous on a few occasions to me which I hadn't felt before about him. I know he is trying to position himself as the moderate to overtake Biden in that lane, so I think he did well in that regard, but I'm still of the feeling that we don't need a moderate to overcome the extreme rightward swing of the country.

And completely agreed on the "teach a lesson in courage" line -- when he said that, I audibly said "what????" Beto was perplexed by the comment as well, and spent time in the post-debate interview talking about that. It was an unnecessary and out-of-place comment.

 

[Beach Friends]

I never said that is what he was or wasn't doing. I simply stated my preferences and what I don't mind, and why.

And I was explaining to you what Booker actually did because it appeared to me that you did not know and that you wrongfully assumed he was simply "reframing."

 

[N.O.Bronco]

It's just my opinion and I doubt anyone else in the country will share my opinion, but I liked Pete until last night. I understand he's in political survival mode, but I thought he was being a passive aggressive jerk all night.

Like the gun control moment with Beto. I don't see how anything Beto said could be interpreted as Beto trying to "teach a lesson in courage" to Pete. It seems like a prepared statement that Pete was waiting to unload on someone. It seemed really forced and pretentious to me.

He also spent a lot more time telling other people that their plans wouldn't work, than he did explaining the details of his plans and why they would work. After last night, I see him as more calculating and conniving, than I see him as thoughtful. I really hope he doesn't get the nomination, because I do not want to vote for him.

Yeah, he has completely lost me.

I know it's frowned upon but you can look at my posts from a certain other site and see I was really in favor of Pete probably as early as anyone. Years ago in fact, I thought he had "it" when I saw him run for the DNC chair. But even before that when he was randomly on podcasts like Ezra Klein's show talking about the complexities of matching liberal idealism like his with the strangling realities of the American legislative system.

And early on in his campaign he really landed that plane. He was honest, articulated a concrete core idealism while articulating why he needed to compromise, but also why that compromise would ultimately move us toward that core idealism. Something few candidates have a true theory of change about.

Probably the most grating example of his transformation though is that a year ago he was making the exact. same. argument. that Warren has been making about Medicare-For-All. Paraphrasing one of the conversations he had, "Ezra, I think the problems we often get into on the left is playing into the right-wing framing of issues, conceding ground we shouldn't be, poisoning our own wells, we know net costs for most Americans would go down under our vision, or what I ultimately believe in, which is single-payer, but we let ourselves get wrapped around the axle of disingenuous things like will this raise taxes."

And now we have Pete, a once-proud wonk cynically attacking others daring to be open about their own policies, a debate removed where he was disingenuously calling for civility as a crowd play, embracing that very self-defeating, visionless role he admonished but a couple of years ago.

 

[wardorican]

From here you can watch all of the debate in 4 parts.

Edit: it went straight to the video, not the page.. so I'll post all 4 parts.

 

[Lazybones]

Pete Buttigieg's debate performance gets enthusiastic applause — from conservatives

The latest Speed Read,/speed-reads,,speed-reads, breaking news, comment, reviews and features from the experts at The Week

theweek.com

Seems to be straddling the fence. He says we should impeach, but then frops this gem.

“think about where we'll be — vulnerable, even more torn apart by politics than we are right now”

 

[wardorican]

This is exactly me (except for the nomination part -- I'd be fine voting for him, but prefer other candidates much more). He is a very good orator, and he is obviously intelligent and well-spoken and those are great traits.

But to me, he speaks in generalities and lacks actual substance so far. His website has plans but oddly, given his comments on others' plans not being viable or detailed, they lack a lot of detail themselves. As you said, he hasn't talked much about what his plans do or why they are better. I know these things seem to resonate more with voters (judging by the general view that he did very well in the debate, when I had him as middle-of-the-pack) but he seemed disingenuous on a few occasions to me which I hadn't felt before about him. I know he is trying to position himself as the moderate to overtake Biden in that lane, so I think he did well in that regard, but I'm still of the feeling that we don't need a moderate to overcome the extreme rightward swing of the country.

And completely agreed on the "teach a lesson in courage" line -- when he said that, I audibly said "what????" Beto was perplexed by the comment as well, and spent time in the post-debate interview talking about that. It was an unnecessary and out-of-place comment.

I watched it again, and I think I get it. He took Beto's comments about following polls as a dig about being calculating and safe. i.e. not the courageous thing to do. I think something had to have been said on the campaign trail, where they both had a little beef with each other. I'd have to dig though. Because later, when Beto is talking about Pete saying his play was "shiny things".. Pete never said that at the debate. They had beef... is my assumption based on where the conversation went.

Side note.. I realize why they cut off Tulsi to commercial.. she was trying to hijack the debate and start asking questions about foreign policy, when the discussion was about age, experience, health.

The more I watched Pete, the more I realized, he's ramping up the youthful "we're sick of this crap" side. I wonder if that's how he really it. I don't think it feels as forced now that I'm watching it more. But, he did want to stick to his "day after Trump" line.. that he worked in hard...

 

[V Chip]

Pete Buttigieg's debate performance gets enthusiastic applause — from conservatives

The latest Speed Read,/speed-reads,,speed-reads, breaking news, comment, reviews and features from the experts at The Week

theweek.com

Seems to be straddling the fence. He says we should impeach, but then frops this gem.

“think about where we'll be — vulnerable, even more torn apart by politics than we are right now”

I liked this quote from the article:

"Buttigieg is getting closer to clinching the Republican nomination," quipped Farron Cousins, a co-host of the progressive Ring of Fire talk show.

He and Tulsi Gabbard are running neck and neck to challenge Trump.

 

[yuyi64]

He and Tulsi Gabbard are running neck and neck to challenge Trump.

You know you're doing something right when Ring of Fire thinks you're too conservative. Go Tulsi!

 

[V Chip]

Thought a Fact Check of the claims in the debate should be posted here for review.

FactChecking the October Democratic Debate - FactCheck.org

The spin focused mainly on the economy and health care.

www.factcheck.org

 

[Beach Friends]

I didn't watch the entire debate, can anyone say whether they made it through the evening without any interruptions from the audience?

 

[BobE]

I didn't watch the entire debate, can anyone say whether they made it through the evening without any interruptions from the audience?

If you protesters there was none that I can remember

 

[yuyi64]

I didn't watch the entire debate, can anyone say whether they made it through the evening without any interruptions from the audience?

I didn't see or hear any. Halfway through the debate most of the audience was asleep anyway.