100 Marines to Baghdad (Iran conflict discussion)(Reopened & Merged) (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

We’re gonna try to stay on point in this one - .

After the Iranian admission of shooting down the Ukrainian 737, which was carrying 82 Iranian passengers, protests against the Supreme Leader have broken out.

The UK ambassador to Iran has been arrested for talking photos of the protests. President Trump has tweeted support for the protesters in English and Farsi.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

More importantly..as Rand Paul pointed out...up until two weeks ago, there were moderates in the Iranian government who were willing to talk to the US, who were interested in moving towards a more westernized way of life.....now, that's gone....a diplomatic solution is basically ipos

Absolutely, and those voices were even stronger before we abandoned the nuclear deal, as their argument was bearing fruit while the hardliners were looking the fools.

Now, the hardliners have an easy case to make, made easier every day.

And as hardliners continue to win the room in both countries, conflict becomes almost impossible to avoid.

 

[Beach Friends]

That’s rich, get incredulous and tell the veteran to take a hike so you can cheer on putting his fellow soldiers at risk to satiate your seemingly never ending bloodlust built on a clear human apathy and extreme jingoism.

I didn't so much tell him to take a hike as much as I told him that playing the vet card isn't that effective when you are playing it against another vet.

Personally, I don't think that being a vet gives one some superior moral authority to declare what is disrespectful to the troops. But, if you really feel that way you can limit your contribution to the conversation to random accusations of racism if you like.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

Trump set a red line already crossed, his ego may not let go, but here is the deescalatory olive branch

 

[efil4]

Well, you can be personally offended if you like - but it's damn sure not like you have any greater right than I to determine what's disrespectful to our military. I think it would be disrespectful, but more importantly it would be imprudent, not to respond to the loss of American lives like I suggested. But, that's my personal opinion and I don't pretend to speak for our troops just because I am a vet.

Oh I'm not pretending. Talk to some. Instead if pretending you know what they stand for and why.

You may change your attitude towards hurling ordinance "down range". Especially when down range is no longer clear.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

I didn't so much tell him to take a hike as much as I told him that playing the vet card isn't that effective when you are playing it against another vet.

Personally, I don't think that being a vet gives one some superior moral authority to declare what is disrespectful to the troops. But, if you really feel that way you can limit your contribution to the conversation to random accusations of racism if you like.

When it comes to jingoistically putting others lives in jeopardy based on childish rationales when you aren’t in a position willing to sacrifice your own is cowardly.

And I held off before, but as someone still trying to justify the Iraq War that cost tens and hundreds of thousands of lives into the 2010’s only reiterates your poor judgement.

 

[efil4]

I didn't so much tell him to take a hike as much as I told him that playing the vet card isn't that effective when you are playing it against another vet.

Personally, I don't think that being a vet gives one some superior moral authority to declare what is disrespectful to the troops. But, if you really feel that way you can limit your contribution to the conversation to random accusations of racism if you like.

I didn't play a vet card. Most here know I served. So since I didnt think you came from the PDB, I wanted you to know I was a veteran.

You can pretend that what I spoke was disingenuous or somehow higher moral authority. You know, if that "flips your skirt".

 

[First Time Poster]

Unfortunately, he has already made statements promising retaliation and a low threshold at that, and has Fox News talking about how we need to retaliate to look strong. Hannity talking up how we are going to hit them with fire and fury unlike any you have ever seen....The guy Fox News insiders said basically has a desk as the shadow bureau chief for the administration and speaks to Trump several times a week.

Acknowledged, but what he says tonight, or potentially say, can have more serious ramifications. The Iranians have given an opening for deescalation and I'm cool with him taking a night before he retorts. It's in everyone best interests. IMHO.

 

[Beach Friends]

When it comes to jingoistically putting others lives in jeopardy based on childish rationales when you aren’t in a position willing to sacrifice your own is cowardly.

And I held off before, but as someone still trying to justify the Iraq War that cost tens and hundreds of thousands of lives into the 2010’s only reiterates your poor judgement.

I always get a kick out of how you just make up crap about the position other posters have taken. And I don't mean merely strawmanning, but just making up crap out of the blue.

Where have I stated any position about the war in Iraq?

Should I thank you for previously having held off on criticizing my poor judgment in stating a position that I never actually stated?

 

[Soundwave]

We should remove ourselves from the whole region. We've got bigger worries at home. We've screwed up enough over there in the guise of trying to "help". They don't want it. Let them be them, let us take care of our own. No American presence and no American money. Nothing. Your land is not an American problem. I'm sure I am wrong in many instances here, but I really just don't care anymore.

 

[Beach Friends]

As a veteran of GW1, I take that post quite disrespectful to all the men and women that put themselves in harms way

I hope you can see where one might think you were playing the vet card. But hey, if you say you weren't then I guess you weren't.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

I always get a kick out of how you just make up crap about the position other posters have taken. And I don't mean merely strawmanning, but just making up crap out of the blue.

Where have I stated any position about the war in Iraq?

Should I thank you for previously having held off on criticizing my poor judgment in stating a position that I never actually stated?

I’d quote your trolling posts from SR backahandedly defending the WMD nonsense under your former moniker but I’ll respect the wishes of the mods and not drag that here or out people that are hiding behind new names.

Carry on with your mindless jingoism and your skirt “flipping.”

Thankfully even Trump, based on his tweet, seems to have even more foresight than many of you have shown recently. Trump once again reminds us how dronish the American right has become. The only upside is if Trump does back down it will at least roll back the sudden bloodlust and blind soldiering to war to praise dear leader’s mercy, or however he and Fox wants to be pleased.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Thankfully even Trump, based on his tweet, seems to have even more foresight than many of you have shown recently.

This is scary as hell...

 

[brandon]

Trump set a red line already crossed, his ego may not let go, but here is the deescalatory olive branch

How frustrating is it that Iran’s leadership sounds so much more competent than ours? Even if it isn’t true, just communicating professionally is something we haven’t had at the top for so long now.

 

[Beach Friends]

I’d quote your trolling posts from SR backahandedly defending the WMD nonsense under your former moniker but I’ll respect the wishes of the mods and not drag that here or out people that are hiding behind new names.

Or, you could just man up and admit that you had no basis whatsoever for stating that you have been generous in not criticizing me because I am "still" defending the war in Iraq.

Your statement indicates that I am currently defending that war. You know you have been called on something you definitely can't prove, so you are just trying to save face by acting like there are other posts on the old board. In reality, you have no idea one way or another.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

Acknowledged, but what he says tonight, or potentially say, can have more serious ramifications. The Iranians have given an opening for deescalation and I'm cool with him taking a night before he retorts. It's in everyone best interests. IMHO.

To be clear I ultimately side there as well.


Best case scenario is Hannity was feeding the bluster and jingoism, his followers eat it up, then Trumps tweet allows them to pivot to a narrative that Iran has bowed down to god almighty Trump. Something, something, remember to hate the libs because of reasons and TDS.

We move back to the slow boil as Trump’s mercurial nature pulls him away for a bit and Iran is satisfied with some regional influence gain as Iraq pushes us away and re-embraces Iran, while given the space to keep accelerating their nuclear program to raise their long-term posture in the region with America still increasingly looking like the rogue actor once reserved for them. Each side moves back to the just inciting rhetoric.

...I can only hope.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

Or, you could just man up and admit that you had no basis whatsoever for stating that you have been generous in not criticizing me because I am "still" defending the war in Iraq.

Your statement indicates that I am currently defending that war. You know you have been called on something you definitely can't prove, so you are just trying to save face by acting like there are other posts on the old board. In reality, you have no idea one way or another.

I didn’t say still, I said into the 2010’s.

And you did, and your posture tonight demonstrates you remain poor in judgement and excitedly jingoistic in the ways that mirrors all the worst nationalistic movements across the world and through history.

But give it a day and you’ll have a new hat. And I’m grateful, because if you all had some moral or intellectual consistency Trump pivoting from hard threats and rhetoric, drawing a specific red line on striking American assets, then embracing deescalation and refusing to make good on that red line would be met with resistance, called cowardice, weakening America, and shamed for bowing to terrorist nations.

But as dangerous as the blind loyalty of his followers is, if this moment can hold, it also occasionally serves to quickly mobilize his loyalists to shed their skin and put on the next one Trump needs you to put on. Looking past those hypocrisies you still hold over his predecessor but work overtime to rationalize away for him.

Tomorrow the people practically falling over themselves that Trump would bomb Iran into oblivion will be praising him for whatever talking point comes out of Fox for why backing down and deescalating was proof of his stable genius. And in this case I’m glad.

 

[Beach Friends]

I didn’t say still

And I held off before, but as someone still trying to justify the Iraq War

You don't know what you wrote in the last hour, but you claim you to have a specific recollection of what I wrote in the 2010's on another board.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

You don't know what you wrote in the last hour, but you claim you to have a specific recollection of what I wrote in the 2010's on another board.

You can’t really gaslight people that can easily read the full sentence and conversational context:

And I held off before, but as someone still trying to justify the Iraq War that cost tens and hundreds of thousands of lives into the 2010’s only reiterates your poor judgement.

It may not be the sentence structure I’d use in formal settings, but you aren’t obtuse.

But really, all I honestly needed was tonight. After policies that led to countless foreigners lives and a still weakened America, you were gung ho and ready to escalate so much with the slightest line being crossed. There isn’t a quagmire in the history of democratic government that didn’t get that way without the help of people like you all. Ready to stoke their deepest jingoism and tribalism at the slightest provocations. Calling nuance, empathy, and measured calculation weakness and cheering on careless provocation and mindless bluster strength.