“I held my nose and pulled the lever for Trump.” (1 Viewer)

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brandon

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I figured this would be a better place to throw down this gauntlet.

So after the election, I heard this statement a LOT from Republicans who acted like the Democrats gave them no choice because Hillary was such a bad candidate. Even some on that “other” forum repeated this claim. It was bullshirt then, and it’s bullshirt now. HRC was an objectively better candidate than Trump, but R’s didn’t want to admit that they only cared about abortion, guns, or the letter after the name, arse-grabbing be damned, and so they “held their noses and pulled the lever for Trump.”

If Biden is the nominee, you can’t really use that excuse now. Trump is still just as awful as he was in 2016, if not more so. If you vote for him now, it’s because you are choosing him and all the garbage that comes with him. Biden isn’t Hillary. He’s a viable alternative. If you still vote for Trump, this time you have to own it. No more acting like the Dems stuck you with an impossible choice. Own it.

And perhaps even more importantly: any Republican will get you abortion laws and guns. You could have had Pence if the impeachment had gone through. So now you’re gonna have to admit the rest of it: the reason you like Trump is specifically because of how terrible he is. You enjoy it. You like his Twitter bullshittery (even though you’ll say you wish he would tone it down). You like his kids in cages policies. You like the sexism, the racism, and the corruption. You like his science denial. You like the things that make him an awful human being.

That makes you an awful human being.
 

Beach Friends

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I figured this would be a better place to throw down this gauntlet.

So after the election, I heard this statement a LOT from Republicans who acted like the Democrats gave them no choice because Hillary was such a bad candidate. Even some on that “other” forum repeated this claim. It was bullshirt then, and it’s bullshirt now. HRC was an objectively better candidate than Trump, but R’s didn’t want to admit that they only cared about abortion, guns, or the letter after the name, arse-grabbing be damned, and so they “held their noses and pulled the lever for Trump.”

If Biden is the nominee, you can’t really use that excuse now. Trump is still just as awful as he was in 2016, if not more so. If you vote for him now, it’s because you are choosing him and all the garbage that comes with him. Biden isn’t Hillary. He’s a viable alternative. If you still vote for Trump, this time you have to own it. No more acting like the Dems stuck you with an impossible choice. Own it.

And perhaps even more importantly: any Republican will get you abortion laws and guns. You could have had Pence if the impeachment had gone through. So now you’re gonna have to admit the rest of it: the reason you like Trump is specifically because of how terrible he is. You enjoy it. You like his Twitter bullshittery (even though you’ll say you wish he would tone it down). You like his kids in cages policies. You like the sexism, the racism, and the corruption. You like his science denial. You like the things that make him an awful human being.

That makes you an awful human being.
People genuinely felt that way in 2016.

In 2020, those same people will gladly pull the lever for the glorious orange bastage.

Your mud pit thread fails.
 
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brandon

brandon

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People genuinely felt that way in 2016.

In 2020, those same people will gladly pull the lever for the glorious orange bastage.
But that’s my point. Your second point belies the first.

Trump has only done the terrible things he promised he would do. He’s only been the inexperienced reality tv show persona he was expected to be. He never became “more presidential” as some suggested he might. Everything that people “held their nose” for has come to pass, or even been made worse. The fact that they are now gladly pulling the lever for the exact same man means they were never really holding their noses to begin with, or that they’ve been fully indoctrinated into the cult. Those are the only possible explanations.

Your mud pit thread fails.
Only in the sense that you kinda proved my point and there’s nothing really to discuss on this particular topic, as we all seem to agree.
 
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brandon

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No, it's not.


No, he's not.
You were one of the “hold your nose types.”

Explain to me how Trump was the worst candidate you’ve ever seen in 2016, second only to Hillary, but now suddenly he happens to also be a better choice than Biden.

Then explain to me which Democrat you actually would have considered over the person who you held your nose for in 2016.

Then just admit that there was never a Dem you were going to vote for in 2016 or 2020 and we can move on.

I’ll take variations on “I’m not playing this game with you” or just a quote with the word “no,” or your total ignoring of my response, or some irrelevant history lesson from 1836 as your admission that I’m right.
 

Dadsdream

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You were one of the “hold your nose types.”

Explain to me how Trump was the worst candidate you’ve ever seen in 2016, second only to Hillary, but now suddenly he happens to also be a better choice than Biden.
Hillary was the worst candidate I'd ever seen in 2016. That's why I held my nose and voted for Trump. Duh.

Then explain to me which Democrat you actually would have considered over the person who you held your nose for in 2016.

Then just admit that there was never a Dem you were going to vote for in 2016 or 2020 and we can move on.

I’ll take variations on “I’m not playing this game with you” or just a quote with the word “no,” or your total ignoring of my response, or some irrelevant history lesson from 1836 as your admission that I’m right.
You really need to work on your bedside manner and stop ordering people around, especially in here. Trust me, I'm trying to help you.

I voted for Jimmy Carter, a Democrat, in 1976, so your idea that I would never vote for a Democrat for president is already bogus, like most of your ideas about me. BTW, who did you vote for in 1976?

Regarding 2016, I fall into demographic that voted overwhelmingly against Hillary, CNN said at the time.

2016 election results: Exit polls

1583417291925.png


Suggestion: Break out your old Hillary for prez T-shirt and we can go down to the VFW on Friday night and you can ask them personally why they voted against Hillary. I'll loan you a flak jacket. You'll need it. :)
 
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brandon

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Hillary was the worst candidate I'd ever seen in 2016. That's why I held my nose and voted for Trump. Duh.
Avoiding my actual question, per usual. But at least you quoted this question. You just flat ignored the other questions, so I guess that’s improvement?
You really need to work on your bedside manner and stop ordering people around, especially in here. Trust me, I'm trying to help you.
This is you doing the thing.
I voted for Jimmy Carter, a Democrat, in 1976, so your idea that I would never vote for a Democrat for president is already bogus, like most of your ideas about me. BTW, who did you vote for in 1976?
I was only off by 140 years.
Suggestion: Break out your old Hillary for prez T-shirt and we can go down to the VFW on Friday night and you can ask them personally why they voted against Hillary. I'll loan you a flak jacket. You'll need it. :)
This is you doing the thing again.
 

Beach Friends

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But that’s my point. Your second point belies the first.

Trump has only done the terrible things he promised he would do. He’s only been the inexperienced reality tv show persona he was expected to be. He never became “more presidential” as some suggested he might. Everything that people “held their nose” for has come to pass, or even been made worse. The fact that they are now gladly pulling the lever for the exact same man means they were never really holding their noses to begin with, or that they’ve been fully indoctrinated into the cult. Those are the only possible explanations.


Only in the sense that you kinda proved my point and there’s nothing really to discuss on this particular topic, as we all seem to agree.
First, you are being foolish to take the position that there were not people who "held their nose and pulled the lever for Trump." People do that for one candidate or another every election cycle. I am sure there were plenty of people who did the same thing for Hillary.

Moreover, you're overlooking a factor that is very real. People who vote that way do so because they are voting against the other party. In the last four years those people who "held their nose and voted for Trump" have had their negative views of the Democratic party reinforced.
In addition, you have people who weren't quite convinced to pull that lever for Trump become so repulsed by the Democratic party that they will now gladly vote for Trump.

Events like the Kavanaugh hearings, impeachment etc have motivated voters on each side. Of you really think that the only people who were motivated are those who are motivated to vote Democrat you really have an unrealistic way of viewing the world.
 

Dadsdream

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Avoiding my actual question, per usual. But at least you quoted this question. You just flat ignored the other questions, so I guess that’s improvement?

This is you doing the thing.

I was only off by 140 years.

This is you doing the thing again.
Ah, seems no matter what I say, it's going to be unacceptable to you.
We should get married.
Fair warning: I'm a pitcher, not a catcher!
 
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brandon

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Moreover, you're overlooking a factor that is very real. People who vote that way do so because they are voting against the other party. In the last four years those people who "held their nose and voted for Trump" have had their negative views of the Democratic party reinforced.
In addition, you have people who weren't quite convinced to pull that lever for Trump become so repulsed by the Democratic party that they will now gladly vote for Trump.
I don't think you realize it, but you're still absolutely agreeing with me. People who voted for Trump the first time, even if they truly despised him and held their noses, were just voting for the letter behind the name. I even said as much in the OP:
R’s didn’t want to admit that they only cared about abortion, guns, or the letter after the name
That's the problem I have. When given the choice of literally the worst possible candidate in history from either party to ever be on the ballot or a woman who they disagreed with politically, Republicans chose Trump. Many Republicans probably didn't like Trump the first time around, but the (D) overcomes all (TWSS).

They used Hillary's overblown negatives as an excuse to say that they might have considered the Democrats if not for how terrible she was, but they never really would have considered the Democrats. Any democrat. The willingness to vote for Trump over Biden, a moderate candidate with credentials and experience, proves that.

They didn't need Kavanaugh or impeachment to get them there. They were already there in 2016. Those that are gleefully voting for Trump now are just admitting the truth. They vote for Rs because they vote for Rs.

Fair warning: I'm a pitcher, not a catcher!
That's the weirdest fork you I've ever seen.
 

Beach Friends

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I don't think you realize it, but you're still absolutely agreeing with me. People who voted for Trump the first time, even if they truly despised him and held their noses, were just voting for the letter behind the name. I even said as much in the OP:

That's the problem I have. When given the choice of literally the worst possible candidate in history from either party to ever be on the ballot or a woman who they disagreed with politically, Republicans chose Trump. Many Republicans probably didn't like Trump the first time around, but the (D) overcomes all (TWSS).

They used Hillary's overblown negatives as an excuse to say that they might have considered the Democrats if not for how terrible she was, but they never really would have considered the Democrats. Any democrat. The willingness to vote for Trump over Biden, a moderate candidate with credentials and experience, proves that.

They didn't need Kavanaugh or impeachment to get them there. They were already there in 2016. Those that are gleefully voting for Trump now are just admitting the truth. They vote for Rs because they vote for Rs.

If your point is that when faced with a choice between two flawed candidates that people tend to vote for the candidate representing the party that most closely aligns with their own political views I don't disagree. I am sure that many people who voted for Hillary did so because she was a Democrat even though they did not especially like her.

Perhaps where we differ is on your odd insistence that people are not motivated to vote for one candidate because they really dislike the other. Have you really thought that through? Do you not believe that there are going to be many people who vote for Biden mainly because they despise Trump?
 

BobE

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I have some time to kill so why not

I figured this would be a better place to throw down this gauntlet.

So after the election, I heard this statement a LOT from Republicans who acted like the Democrats gave them no choice because Hillary was such a bad candidate. Even some on that “other” forum repeated this claim. It was bullshirt then, and it’s bullshirt now. HRC was an objectively better candidate than Trump,
You think she was a better. People disagreed. Welcome to America where people are allowed to disagree , well used to be. There is also people who the thought of voting Hillary made them sick yet they did it any ways.

but R’s didn’t want to admit that they only cared about abortion, guns, or the letter after the name, arse-grabbing be damned, and so they “held their noses and pulled the lever for Trump.”
Abortion - whether you want to admit it or not at some point it goes from just being a "clump of cells" to an actual person. We have reached the point of on demand for ANY reason Hell there are videos on social media of people celebrating their abortions

Guns - Sorry, not sorry. I will protect my family by any means necessary. My wife has had a stalker for 3 years. Not only leaving stuff on her car but to the point of leaving things for her on or apt door and we live in a high rise with security and the police still have no clue. Yet you have Democrats who openly admit they want to take my gun. Sorry but no.

arse grabbing - Is this the part where people are to forget her part in it? The cover ups, the defending Bill, the degrading of the victims? or is this the believe all women as long as it benefits my side part?

Only the letter - I mean come on. Were there some that did that? absolutely yes. Were there people that only voted Hillary because she had a D after her name? You damn right.

If Biden is the nominee, you can’t really use that excuse now. Trump is still just as awful as he was in 2016, if not more so. If you vote for him now, it’s because you are choosing him and all the garbage that comes with him. Biden isn’t Hillary. He’s a viable alternative. If you still vote for Trump, this time you have to own it. No more acting like the Dems stuck you with an impossible choice. Own it.
So forget everything Biden has done in his life, forget his voting record, forget that the guy is barely coherent. Basically vote Biden cause Trump.

And perhaps even more importantly: any Republican will get you abortion laws and guns. You could have had Pence if the impeachment had gone through. So now you’re gonna have to admit the rest of it: the reason you like Trump is specifically because of how terrible he is. You enjoy it. You like his Twitter bullshittery (even though you’ll say you wish he would tone it down). You like his kids in cages policies. You like the sexism, the racism, and the corruption. You like his science denial. You like the things that make him an awful human being.
A lot to unpack here.

I'm not in charge of impeachment so I really can't comment.

Does he tweet out shirt that makes me laugh? Sure he does because I love s good internet troll, but then i remember that he is POTUS and I shake my head at it cause I want better. Sadly though social media and twitter in particular have turned politicians into meme idiots. If I had my way politicians social media would be handle by staff and it would have to be policy related.

Is it me or do people only care about kids in cages since 2017? It's an odd thing. Don't know what the difference could be.

I currently live in a state where the Governor has a nickname of "Coonman" and can't remember if he wore blackface or a Klans suit. A Lt Gov that has multiple rape allegations and a A.G. that wore blackface.

Science also told me there was only 2 genders and yet here we are.

That makes you an awful human being.
Then so be it.
 
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I figured this would be a better place to throw down this gauntlet.

So after the election, I heard this statement a LOT from Republicans who acted like the Democrats gave them no choice because Hillary was such a bad candidate. Even some on that “other” forum repeated this claim. It was bullshirt then, and it’s bullshirt now. HRC was an objectively better candidate than Trump, but R’s didn’t want to admit that they only cared about abortion, guns, or the letter after the name, arse-grabbing be damned, and so they “held their noses and pulled the lever for Trump.”

If Biden is the nominee, you can’t really use that excuse now. Trump is still just as awful as he was in 2016, if not more so. If you vote for him now, it’s because you are choosing him and all the garbage that comes with him. Biden isn’t Hillary. He’s a viable alternative. If you still vote for Trump, this time you have to own it. No more acting like the Dems stuck you with an impossible choice. Own it.

And perhaps even more importantly: any Republican will get you abortion laws and guns. You could have had Pence if the impeachment had gone through. So now you’re gonna have to admit the rest of it: the reason you like Trump is specifically because of how terrible he is. You enjoy it. You like his Twitter bullshittery (even though you’ll say you wish he would tone it down). You like his kids in cages policies. You like the sexism, the racism, and the corruption. You like his science denial. You like the things that make him an awful human being.

That makes you an awful human being.
First of all the kids in cages policies was started under Obama not Trump. I’m voting for Trump not because of his tweets but because he has done a great job creating jobs and achieving record low unemployment. In fact you trying to project your feelings about Trump onto his supporters. There has been zero racist things done by Trump and in fact he has done a lot of great things for minorities.
 

Heathen

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Ask the average Trump voter what specific policies he's enacted that appeals to them and improves their everyday lives.

Mostly youll get "the economy", without going into detail. These folks will eventually wake up and realize the elementary notion that the stock market surging doesn't automatically translate to their lives improving, it just gives the illusion as such.

All Trump has to do is repeatedly sow fear, demonize other countries and throw out nonsensical scare verbiage like "the radical left wants us to be Venezuela and have Communism".

They're like the proverbial frog in the pot as it heats making fun of the frog outside the pot. They could demand more from their country, yet they are fine being drones for oligarchs as long as they can wear red hats and slap bumper stickers on their cars that make them feel superior.

And it's easy as hell for the puppeteers. Shamefully easy.
 

Beach Friends

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Ask the average Trump voter what specific policies he's enacted that appeals to them and improves their everyday lives.

Mostly youll get "the economy", without going into detail. These folks will eventually wake up and realize the elementary notion that the stock market surging doesn't automatically translate to their lives improving, it just gives the illusion as such.

All Trump has to do is repeatedly sow fear, demonize other countries and throw out nonsensical scare verbiage like "the radical left wants us to be Venezuela and have Communism".

They're like the proverbial frog in the pot as it heats making fun of the frog outside the pot. They could demand more from their country, yet they are fine being drones for oligarchs as long as they can wear red hats and slap bumper stickers on their cars that make them feel superior.

And it's easy as hell for the puppeteers. Shamefully easy.
Trump is not scaring me or really motivating me by what he says. The Democrats need a course direction, IMO. This extreme path they have been on is silly and it showed up during their debates.

People on each side are voting against the other side as much as anything else.
 

Heathen

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Trump is not scaring me or really motivating me by what he says. The Democrats need a course direction, IMO. This extreme path they have been on is silly and it showed up during their debates.

People on each side are voting against the other side as much as anything else.

My point is that it's a tactic he uses and knows works, at least among a good portion of the base.

Out of curiosity, what is this 'extreme path' you're talking about, and how would Democrats in your view of a course correction improve?
 

Beach Friends

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My point is that it's a tactic he uses and knows works, at least among a good portion of the base.

Out of curiosity, what is this 'extreme path' you're talking about, and how would Democrats in your view of a course correction improve?
The extreme shift to the left and in particular the focus on intersectionality/identity politics which I see as cultural Marxism. Especially in the early debates, it seemed that each candidate believed that they would win if only they referenced racism, sexism and LGBTQ more than the other candidates.

This extreme pandering and fear of the offending the extreme left seemed to prevent the candidates from being able to seriously consider the issues. For example, when all of the candidates on stage raised their hands to indicate they would extend Medicare to illegal aliens.

It was if you could get a candidate to go as far left as you wanted, if only the question was framed in such a way that one of the answers called for the candidate to prove his/her wokeness.

Accusations of being bigots were slung around as if that was the ultimate debate skill. Kamala Harris' accusation against Biden was both canned and incoherent. The "I was that little girl" line seemed to suggest that she was Biden's victim because she waa bussed, but her complaint against him was that he voted against bussing.

Warren's accusation against Bernie was even worse. It seemed desperate and I think very few people believe that Bernie doesn't support women. It ran contrary to everything we know about him. Besides, even if he did question whether a woman is electable in a private meeting, how did that hurt her campaign?

To me, this hyper focus on such issues has really hurt the Democratic party. As has the wild allegations of people being Russian agents. Basically, if the Democratic establishment doesn't like you, the Russia smear will be tried. People just are not buying it and they are tired of that obsession.
 

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