All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (15 Viewers)

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    Maxp

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    I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?
     
    dtc said:
    They didn't swap it. They added it in the memo section and there are many reports that say the addition is causing delays. And, if nothing else, it's wasting money on ink.

    Tiny hands and a massive inferiority complex will be emblazoned on every one of those checks. Kudos!
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    This president's ego is extremely fragile.. He NEEDS his name on the checks.. He wants Americans to associate him with relief as if it was a gift of his own money.
     
    Optimus Prime said:
    Even if there would be zero delay adding his signature to the checks you don’t think it’s an odd request?

    And odd is putting it mildly
    Click to expand...

    Odd, for most normal people. But he is a narcissist, so it makes perfect sense.

    anyways b/c I don't want to make another post just to post this, I am shocked someone on faux news said this:

     
    surada said:
    Cruise ships, churches, movie theaters, airliners and any place where people are crowded together ... like the USS Theodore Roosevelt is the perfect environment for spreading a contagion ...

    What are you arguing here?
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    That it's not really possible to extrapolate the mortality rate from the cruise ship patients to the general population without knowing anything about the existence or absence of comorbidities.
     
    Lapaz said:
    First, I made the point that this isn't the flu virus, because you implied that it is the flu virus when you said "IDK of too many flu strains that people have no idea they have had." Since Trump and many conservatives have spread the misinformation that this is "just" the flu, I wanted to dis-spell any implication again.

    Regarding your question about the cruise ship's demo. I haven't investigated that, but the cruise ship's demographics are probably older, yet I believe they tend to be healthy older people, since they are still able to travel to enjoy life. We have to be careful about leaning too heavily on their results, because the virus has been much more deadly everywhere else in even countries that have done vastly higher testing. Even countries that are testing at a rate more than 4 times higher than the U.S. are still seeing high death rates. The best result in the world seems to be Iceland, where they've tested over 10% per million of their population, and have about a 0.9% death rate, on the other hand Luxembourg that has tested over 5% per million of its population has about a 12% death rate. By comparison, we still have tested just under 1% per million of our population. Note, that isn't 1% of our population, because most people get tested multiple times. Also, there are 2 known strains of the virus, and the U.S. is primarily infected with the European virus, so it relates more closely to Luxembourg, while the cruise ship was primarily the Chinese strain. Iceland may have the primary Chinese strain, which could explain their lower fatality rate, or there may be other strains or factors involved. So the worldwide fatality will be an average of all of the strains. As a result, experts have been very conservatively guessing 2 to 3% eventual worldwide fatality rate, but the U.S. fatality rate could be much higher.
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    I don't think comparing and contrasting two things is an indication that someone thinks the two are the same. Just the opposite.

    I don't know of too many cats that bark.

    Cats aren't dogs!
     
    Dadsdream said:
    In the long and colorful history of presidential election year self-promotion, it's definitely different, I'll grant you that.
    Sometime in the next century's version of Pawn Stars, a guy is going to walk into the pawn shop with one of these checks, i guess? :hihi:
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    can you point me to where another president in recent history made a request like this?

    If Obama had done this in the post financial crisis, some white folk would burned their checks.
     
    Beach Friends said:
    That it's not really possible to extrapolate the mortality rate from the cruise ship patients to the general population without knowing anything about the existence or absence of comorbidities.
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    Even young people have asthma .. Even 35-40 and 50 year olds have minor health issues or undetected heart problems or diabetes or high blood pressure. You are trying to confuse and minimize the threat. Do you have any medical background?

    The Danes have fared well in this epidemic.. They went extreme.. immediately assuming it would kill people of all ages and going into lock down immediately.. Trump tap danced like he was holding a campaign rally.

    Over 100 American Airlines cabin attendants have been diagnosed with covid-19.. They aren't senior citizens.
     
    efil4 said:
    can you point me to where another president in recent history made a request like this?

    If Obama had done this in the post financial crisis, some white folk would burned their checks.
    Click to expand...
    Specifically? No.
    Generally, I was alluding to strange behaviors during presidential election years. There have been many, many examples.
    The Election of 1828 probably takes the cake.
    • John Quincy Adams accused Andrew Jackson of murder while serving as a military officer for executing deserters.
    • Andrew Jackson accused John Quincy Adams of having been a pimp while serving as a diplomat in Russia.
    • Jackson was accused of adultery and vilified for running off with another man’s wife, and his wife was accused of bigamy because her divorce 40 years earlier had not been finalized.
    • Jackson's wife, Rachel, suffered a heart attack and died before the inauguration,
    • Jackson won the election of 1828, and his administration got off to a bitter beginning when Adams refused to attend his inauguration.
    • Rowdy inauguration celebrations led to fist fights and damages in the White House.
    No need to throw in race baiting comments as a component of this discussion. Geez.
     
    Dadsdream said:
    My experience is all federal government, 40 years.

    I find it difficult to.believe that the president can sign trillion dollar stimulus but can't sign a $1200 check.
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    The Treasury Department has ordered President Trump’s name printed on stimulus checks the Internal Revenue Service is rushing to send to tens of millions of Americans, a process that could slow their delivery by a few days, senior IRS officials said.

    The unprecedented decision, finalized late Monday, means that when recipients open the $1,200 paper checks the IRS is scheduled to begin sending to 70 million Americans in coming days, “President Donald J. Trump” will appear on the left side of the payment.

    It will be the first time a president’s name appears on an IRS disbursement, whether a routine refund or one of the handful of checks the government has issued to taxpayers in recent decades either to stimulate a down economy or share the dividends of a strong one.
    Click to expand...

     
    How long until Trump puts his face on all our currency? Serious question.
     
    UncleTrvlingJim said:
    Trump is extraordinarily inarticulate and even at the best of times is not concerned with technical details. If the purpose of these briefings is to convey information to the American public, wouldn't it be best if he stuck to brief prepared marks, and then let the technical experts handle the rest?
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    Of course it would be best, but not for Trump (at least in his line of thinking), he is clearly using the briefings as campaign opportunities....

    Richard said:
    Each governor is responsible to his/her own conscience and will be held accountable for their actions by the electorate in their individual states. Personally, I would rather err on the side of protecting my citizens and be considered overcautious than to do too little and be seen as incompetent, unprepared and partially responsible for suffering in my state.

    I haven't checked all of the data, but as of yesterday, Maryland, Vermont, Indiana and Georgia are among the top 10 states of deaths per 1000 people and each has a Republican governor. It really doesn't matter, since the virus doesn't care. The state I live in has a Republican governor and I believe he has done a pretty good job handling the crisis so far. I believe history will show that governors of both parties did well, while some did poorly. The dead and their loved ones won't care so much about that though.
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    We have a republican governor in MD as well (Larry Hogan). While I'm not fond of a lot of his ideas/policies he has done what I think is a great job of trying to minimize the number of cases/deaths here. IMO he clearly cares about the people. I totally respect him.

    not2rich said:
    These press briefings keep getting less informative but demonstrate beyond doubt that Trump has a really simple view of Federalism: Any aspect of the virus response that is going badly (*cough* testing! *cough*) is the sole responsibility of the states/governors. He wants all the glory, all the credit.... But making tough decisions, taking risks, facing accountability...that's for others. If and when his "Grand Reopening" goes off the tracks, you can bet your bank account he'll be blaming the states and governors. We are clearly in trouble with this reality TV show clown "leading" us, and if we get out of this without lasting damage it will be in spite of him, not because of him.
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    Totally agreed, well said.....
     
    Optimus Prime said:
    Even if there would be zero delay adding his signature to the checks you don’t think it’s an odd request?

    And odd is putting it mildly
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    Don't capitulate. There absolutely *is* a delay. There is zero chance this doesn't delay the process. The process is 100% delayed, and it ain't 10 minutes.

    It's a stupid narcissistic request, and his lackeys made it happen for him, costing the US taxpayers who knows how much in extra work to put it there and test it, and delaying checks by days to millions of US Taxpayers.

    To claim anything else is utter stupidity.
     
    Beach Friends said:
    I don't think comparing and contrasting two things is an indication that someone thinks the two are the same. Just the opposite.

    I don't know of too many cats that bark.

    Cats aren't dogs!
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    These people are not senior citizens.

    100 American Airlines flight attendants, 41 pilots test ...
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2020/...

    6 days ago · About 100 American Airlines flight attendants and 41 pilots have tested positive for COVID-19, their unions say. Southwest employees are also sick. About 100 American Airlines flight attendants and.
     

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    Beach Friends said:
    I don't think comparing and contrasting two things is an indication that someone thinks the two are the same. Just the opposite.

    I don't know of too many cats that bark.

    Cats aren't dogs!
    Click to expand...
    Conservative media was constantly saying this was either the common cold or a strain of the flu. At best your statement left it murky whether you knew. You should know, since you are an avid reader of this forum, but you've frequently repeated other false information, despite it being debunked here. If you knew, then I'm glad, but you are still among the few posters that continues to think this is an overreaction.

    Beach Friends said:
    I'd say my probability that the early number of 3.4% is exaggerated is 92.77. Where does it end up? Much less.

    Should we act before we have that information? Probably, we can't afford to ignore that poverty causes deaths too.
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    I quoted you stats from 2 countries which have done vast testing, and one has about a 1% death rate while the other is at about 11%. Most countries that have done vast testing are seeing closer to 1%, however there are different strains, and some countries that have done vast testing are seeing over 30% fatalities. The final result for the world will probably be 1 to 3%, but what if our strain causes over 3%? It appears to be headed that way, so yes we should act based on the probability that it is headed that way. We shouldn't go back to business as usual until we get the vaccine. We need to provide masks and other tools to get back to work, but acting on the premise that this is milder than the evidence suggests is irresponsible.
     
    V Chip said:
    Don't capitulate. There absolutely *is* a delay. There is zero chance this doesn't delay the process. The process is 100% delayed, and it ain't 10 minutes.

    It's a stupid narcissistic request, and his lackeys made it happen for him, costing the US taxpayers who knows how much in extra work to put it there and test it, and delaying checks by days to millions of US Taxpayers.

    To claim anything else is utter stupidity.
    Click to expand...
    So, you're disputing the Treasury, which says things are actually going to take place ahead of schedule?

    "Economic Impact Payment checks are scheduled to go out on time and exactly as planned – there is absolutely no delay whatsoever," a Treasury spokeswoman said in a statement. "In fact, we expect the first checks to be in the mail early next week which is well in advance of when the first checks went out in 2008 and well in advance of initial estimates."

    www.usatoday.com

    Trump's name to be printed on $1,200 coronavirus stimulus checks going out to Americans

    Critics slammed the move as narcissistic and accused the president of using the pandemic to try and boost his reelection chances.
    www.usatoday.com
     
    Beach Friends said:
    Do you know the ages and underlying conditions of those infected on the cruise ship? I don't know that it is necessarily representative of the general population. Still, that is much lower than 3.4%.

    BTW, why the need to say that this is not the flu? It's not obvious why that would be necessary comment to make when we already know we are comparing the morality between two different viruses.
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    I keep hearing from my "conservative" friends that somehow this virus only affects the old and infirm, but there's a number of dead folks who were neither. Still, I keep hearing a pretty weak argument that we need to open up the economy and that the old, fat and infirm just need to take precautions and that it just is what it is. People are going to die, but because the economy is suffering, it's just the price to be paid.

    My question is that I thought all life was precious. Why are the lives of the old, fat and sick not so important or is that not a real concern when it's in the context of economic health?
     
    surada said:
    This president's ego is extremely fragile.. He NEEDS his name on the checks.. He wants Americans to associate him with relief as if it was a gift of his own money.
    Click to expand...

    It's as if the whole clan feels that way.

    Jared says the federal stockpiles belong to "us" as if he was the federal government and, worse, that the federal government isn't a creation of and for the states.
     
    Dadsdream said:
    So, you're disputing the Treasury, which says things are actually going to take place ahead of schedule?

    "Economic Impact Payment checks are scheduled to go out on time and exactly as planned – there is absolutely no delay whatsoever," a Treasury spokeswoman said in a statement. "In fact, we expect the first checks to be in the mail early next week which is well in advance of when the first checks went out in 2008 and well in advance of initial estimates."

    www.usatoday.com

    Trump's name to be printed on $1,200 coronavirus stimulus checks going out to Americans

    Critics slammed the move as narcissistic and accused the president of using the pandemic to try and boost his reelection chances.
    www.usatoday.com
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    If they work for Trump, directly or indirectly, that is their only choice. To tell the truth would immediately result in them being blamed, scapegoated, harassed, intimidated and fired.

    For some mid-level spokesman at Treasury to say otherwise would make them FOX famous in 2 minutes.
     

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