All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (16 Viewers)

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    Maxp

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    I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?
     
    JimEverett said:
    Not a good way to frame it. We don't close roads due to the fact that people die while using them. There is a calculus involved.
    Click to expand...

    I don't think you can compare a contagion to a traffic accident.


    Pandemic Flu: Preparing and Protecting ... - George W. Bush
    bush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/pandemicflu
    President George W. Bush delivers his remarks regarding his National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza Preparedness and Response Tuesday, Nov. 1, 2005. "Today, I am announcing key elements of …
     
    surada said:
    I don't think you can compare a contagion to a traffic accident.


    Pandemic Flu: Preparing and Protecting ... - George W. Bush
    bush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/pandemicflu
    President George W. Bush delivers his remarks regarding his National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza Preparedness and Response Tuesday, Nov. 1, 2005. "Today, I am announcing key elements of …
    Click to expand...
    I wasn't. I was comparing activities that will no doubt result in death. The idea that anything that causes death should be stopped via government decree is ridiculous, and I think pretty much everyone agrees. Thus, the framing of the issue of opening the economy as one between death and no death is a terrible way to frame the argument.
     
    JimEverett said:
    I wasn't. I was comparing activities that will no doubt result in death. The idea that anything that causes death should be stopped via government decree is ridiculous, and I think pretty much everyone agrees. Thus, the framing of the issue of opening the economy as one between death and no death is a terrible way to frame the argument.
    Click to expand...

    Americans are not keen on obeying .. except in an emergency.. I learned that 65 years ago.. During the normal course of events they demand an explanation and will argue to exhaustion. However they can pull it together in a crisis.. The problem is that Trump is not a leader.. He's far too emotional.. He lies, contradicts himself, whines that he's a victim and flip flops around trying to defect blame.. Blame is extremely important to Trump..
     
    B8B937B4-9767-43D6-ABCD-2C0F24BCA3D4.jpeg
     
    JimEverett said:
    I wasn't. I was comparing activities that will no doubt result in death. The idea that anything that causes death should be stopped via government decree is ridiculous, and I think pretty much everyone agrees. Thus, the framing of the issue of opening the economy as one between death and no death is a terrible way to frame the argument.
    Click to expand...


    Heroin for all then? ;)
     
    Beach Friends said:
    After what we have seen of models over the last few weeks, which ones do you trust?

    I am looking at the fact that 16,000,000 are unemployed and that number is rising.

    I think in the final analysis this virus is going to have a mortality rate about like the seasonal flu.

    The plan was never to stay under house arrest until the Chinese virus was eradicated. I don't think we need to take a Justin Trudeau type approach to this. We can't wait until there is a vaccine before returning to normal.

    If we don't get this economy rolling we are going to ruin and lose a lot more lives to poverty than we stand to lose to the virus.

    We can of course look at other ways to mitigate the spread and effects of the virus, but just bankrupting the nation doesn't seem like a choice that is backed up by science as the most rational choice.
    Click to expand...

    Since when did Republicans start to care about the effects of poverty and why don't these poor just grab some boot straps?
     
    Farb said:
    The fact that if someone is to ask: what is the next step is or what is the plan and what data is being used to formulate the plan, are painted as only caring about money, economy and willing to sacrifice grandmother and other innocent lives on the evil altar of capitalism and freedom is pretty disgusting.
    Those that do it, generally know better but do it anyway and those that don't, well, we all know who those people are.
    Click to expand...

    I am all for a plan. I would like to hear the plan and the metrics. Hell, I could be tasked with enacting a plan for one of the entities I'm on the board of.

    The thing is, the only thing we've heard from Trump is that we need to do it asap and he's the man with the authority to do it.

    No plan. No details.

    When those details are fleshed out, he could share them and those of us with a brain could evaluate. Until then, he's flapping his gums, wiggling his tiny hands and doing that puppet dance he likes so much all while wasting time and air lying to us all.
     
    dtc said:
    I am all for a plan. I would like to hear the plan and the metrics. Hell, I could be tasked with enacting a plan for one of the entities I'm on the board of.

    The thing is, the only thing we've heard from Trump is that we need to do it asap and he's the man with the authority to do it.

    No plan. No details.

    When those details are fleshed out, he could share them and those of us with a brain could evaluate. Until then, he's flapping his gums, wiggling his tiny hands and doing that puppet dance he likes so much all while wasting time and air lying to us all.
    Click to expand...

    Trump couldn't organize a trip to the john.

    Pandemic Flu: Preparing and Protecting ... - George W. Bush
    bush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/pandemicflu
    President George W. Bush delivers his remarks regarding his National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza Preparedness and Response Tuesday, Nov. 1, 2005. "Today, I am announcing key elements of …
     
    surada said:
    Listen to what Bush said about pandemic in 2005.. He was light years ahead of Trump and Kushner.

    George W. Bush in 2005: 'If we wait for a pandemic to appear, it will be too late to prepare'
    A book about the 1918 flu pandemic spurred the government to action.

    abcnews.go.com

    George W. Bush in 2005: 'If we wait for a pandemic to appear, it will be too late to prepare'

    In the summer of 2005, President George W. Bush was on vacation when he began flipping through an advanced copy of a new book about the 1918 flu pandemic.
    abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com
    Click to expand...

    Be for real.

    Bush in a RINO and not a true conservative.
     
    JimEverett said:
    Not a good way to frame it. We don't close roads due to the fact that people die while using them. There is a calculus involved.
    Click to expand...

    We close roads when there is a likelihood of danger.

    Before we close those roads, we sometimes restrict their use to local traffic or one way. We almost always have a bunch of orange cones, safety markers and flag men bringing our attention to the potentially dangerous condition. We go so far as to publish warnings and ways to deal with the issues and plan months or years in advance for detours and mitigation strategies for even the slightest bit of foreseeable danger.

    If the Trump administration had taken the same basic precautions that Podunk, USA takes to change a traffic light we'd be in a far better place today than we are.

    Oh, and one more point.

    We close roads in hopes of avoiding injury or death not only after death has occurred, but kudos on the analogy. I liked it.
     
    samiam5211 said:
    So calculate it for us.

    How many deaths is your 401k worth?
    Click to expand...

    At some point we are going to have to make the decision to return to normal life. And yes, whenever that time is there will be people who succumb to the Chinese virus. We also know that there will be people who are waiting for that inevitability so that they can lay the blame on others.
     
    JimEverett said:
    Not a good way to frame it. We don't close roads due to the fact that people die while using them. There is a calculus involved.
    Click to expand...

    I was reading some quotes from one of the heads of WHO about influenza, and how beyond vaccination, which we know is not 100%, and its effectiveness varies from season to season, )there is no effort to contain it. We just accept people will die from it, and that's that.
     

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