All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (3 Viewers)

JimEverett said:

I have already addressed that point a few times. Do factors like population density only work for you to absolve Democrats

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Have you yet worked out the supposed link between democratic policies and rates of this disease with evidence, as you appeared to suggest?

More from respected epidemiologist Michael Osterholm:


The article is from March 27th, but still worth reading.

wardorican said:

That's cute, but did you actually read the linked articles, or just the crappy summaries that article used? I'll use the Hannity one to start with.

And another note. It should be obvious, but the Daily Show generally uses TV news blurbs to make fun of. None of the "others who said similar" were on TV. OMG, someone from an online news publication wrong something that sounds like a smarter way of saying almost the same idea! They should be mocked too!



Hannity gets crap mostly for his approach. His dismissive, smug, jackass way of talking about "the left". I don't know what else he said in that video, but I'm sure it was a far cry from just trying to put it in perspective, vs completely down playing it.

Cuomo was correct. The fear is mostly for the older and folks with other conditions. Most people don't need to be afraid of it. I'm not afraid of it, I'm afraid of being part of the problem causing a bunch of folks to die. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd also rather not catch it.

Dr. Katz, that's a cute 1 sentence remark from a pretty well thought out article. His whole point was about instead of having everyone stay home, have the elderly and sickly stay home and keep everyone else out there, because the risk would be lower. He didn't think our current way of doing it would be very effective.

Opinion | Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease? (Published 2020)

There may be more targeted ways to beat the pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

At the time the CDC was correct. Heck, even with a few thousand known cases in South Florida, with over 6 million people, it would be pretty low odds for me to catch it.

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I'm by no means defending Hannity who I detest. The article simply showed that many were incorrectly downplaying the threat of Covid. Did you see the part about what th CDC said?

Also, I didn't realize that anyone still watched the Daily Show or even thought they were still funny. Apparently you are one of the few.

SaintForLife said:

I'm by no means defending Hannity who I detest. The article simply showed that many were incorrectly downplaying the threat of Covid. Did you see the part about what th CDC said?

Also, I didn't realize that anyone still watched the Daily Show or even thought they were still funny. Apparently you are one of the few.

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Yes, I read most of it. I know what the CDC was saying. They also have political bosses, and the one in particular, is one I have beef with.

They also didn't want the public in masks, so health care workers could have them. Now, they want us in masks, just not medical ones. Make our own.

Yes, I find them funny, but I didn't bring that up. Seems like an odd point to make, when the whole idea was about hypocrisy, but also how various media sources don't properly inform the public. but, there is a huge difference between an objective look at something, and a persuasion piece.

wardorican said:

isn't that still correct?

He's not telling people to ignore it and go about their lives. Just not to have millions in a city panic and cause problems.

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How ironic that you find nuance in what a Democrat is saying. I'm not defending what Trump has said. I criticized him for downplaying the virus initially. But let's not act like many in the media weren't also downplaying Covid at that point including Pelosi.

wardorican said:

Yes, I read most of it. I know what the CDC was saying. They also have political bosses, and the one in particular, is one I have beef with.

They also didn't want the public in masks, so health care workers could have them. Now, they want us in masks, just not medical ones. Make our own.

Yes, I find them funny, but I didn't bring that up. Seems like an odd point to make, when the whole idea was about hypocrisy, but also how various media sources don't properly inform the public. but, there is a huge difference between an objective look at something, and a persuasion piece.

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Oh so the idiot Trump was controlling what the CDC was saying about Covid at that point?

SaintForLife said:

How ironic that you find nuance in what a Democrat is saying. I'm not defending what Trump has said. I criticized him for downplaying the virus initially. But let's not act like many in the media weren't also downplaying Covid at that point including Pelosi.

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I'm not sure what you were trying to argue, since all you did was post the article allegedly refuting everything from the Daily show, and I'm just pointing out that it's lazy, and misleading writing. But, either you agreed with the basics of it, or you don't. And possibly, you didn't read it all, but it sounded like what you wanted to hear.

Yeah, not a fan of Pelosi's comments there.

However, she's not totally wrong. SF isn't that bad. They have it far more under control than LA, or Houston, for sure. I also don't know what date she said that, and if it was also in relation to some of the issues Chinese were facing since this started to break.

SaintForLife said:

Oh so the idiot Trump was controlling what the CDC was saying about Covid at that point?

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Which quote? the one about the low risk? It's still on their site.



Aren't they part of the Admin? Don't they report to Trump? The CDC is clearly getting it's "branding" orders from the Admin. To think otherwise, it just silly.

Pence has been leading the government's Covid19 response since February 26th. On march 4th, in a briefing, Pence used very similar language, that the immediate risk of being exposed is low. Actually, he said the risk of contracting it is low, if you're healthy. Which is well.. false. How healthy you are doesn't play into if you'll catch something or not. Just how bad it will get.

SaintForLife said:

News media, liberals mock conservatives for early pandemic comments they made themselves

Analysis of three months of public comments shows health officials, liberals and media personalities made comments similar to conservatives now being mocked.

justthenews.com

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That article is laughable in its attempt to correlate legitimate and responsible statements by liberals and democratic government officials to the irresponsible and dismissive statements by Trump, this administration, Fox News and the conservative media.

The right is constantly trying to rewrite history to downplay the awfulness and consequences of their actions, positions and statements.

Way to rally these Sailors!!!




**** This Guy.

Acting Secretary of the Navy Thomas Modly issued a series of sharp comments Monday while speaking to Theodore Roosevelt sailors about their ship’s recently fired commanding officer, Capt. Brett Crozier.
Modly’s comments, which were delivered over the aircraft carrier’s 1MC, come in the wake of a leaked letter Crozier penned pleading for U.S. intervention to stifle a COVID-19 outbreak on the 4,800-person ship.
Cozier’s letter, which was first published by the San Francisco Chronicle, was reportedly sent up the captain’s immediate chain of command in a “non-secure, unclassified” email that included “20 or 30” additional recipients, acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly told reporters Thursday.
“It was a betrayal," Modly told sailors Monday, according to a recording of the message obtained by Navy Times.
“And I can tell you one other thing: because he did that he put it in the public’s forum and it is now a big controversy in Washington, D.C. If he didn’t think, in my opinion, that this information wasn’t going to get out to the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naïve or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this. The alternative is that he did this on purpose.”

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wardorican said:

You're right. Plenty of other countries have failed. Many have made poor leadership decisions. However, a lot of it is beyond their control. We're free nations, with freedom comes many challenges.

Speaking of being gross trying to make a political point. You think the problem with the few states with Covid-19 outbreaks is because they're Democrats? Or maybe just that they are some of the more populous states?

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No - I have stated several times that I aam not blaming anyone - did you not read that? You are the one blaming and I find it odd. Your first paragraph makes the point that this is out of leadership's control - yet you are insistent on blaming Trump. It makes no sense to me.
Especially considering that you seem so intent on providing any possible reason not to blame Democratic leadership whose states are solely, at this time, the only ones above the country's average.
Do you not think that seems ridiculously partisan?

wardorican said:

But cut the crap. He was flat out lying to the American people about this. He was downplaying it. Or misleading us, or just not doing anything for far too long. There are others, and there will be an accounting. Thank goodness most of our Governors at least took some form of action and local officials in the larger cities did what they could.

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"[D]id what they could"????? Do you not understand how the United States works? It is precisely governors and local officials who make such calls - not the federal government It makes no sense for rural Wyoming to be treated the same way as New York - right?

wardorican said:

Aren't you tired of him always lying about things?

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I am more tired of people taking a pandemic that is affecting the entire western world in roughly the same way and trying to blame the U.S. President for it.

... as the political ping pong and the virus-handling cluster**** continues, I was reading some stuff about WWII... I read that between 1941 and 1945, the U.S. produced just about 300,000 aircraft. Aircraft. And here we are, 2020, with computers and robots, and we can't produce enough ventilators, masks, toilet paper...

... indeed, the greatest generation.

JimEverett said:

"[D]id what they could"????? Do you not understand how the United States works? It is precisely governors and local officials who make such calls - not the federal government It makes no sense for rural Wyoming to be treated the same way as New York - right?

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So in a national pandemic in which the President dramatically declared a "national emergency" early last month, what exactly IS the role of the Federal government?

Of course the various state governors make public health decisions affecting their respective states, but they have neither the resources to single-handedly save their own economies nor the ability to coordinate a national strategy in the absence of a multi-state compact.

The Federal govt has SOME role here, right?

And now that most of the country is social distancing while businesses go under and unemployment skyrockets, what's the plan for getting back to normal. Hoping that Hydroxychloroquine is the magic bullet? And if not, then what?

I think it's pretty transparent that Trump's professed respect for "state's rights" has nothing to do with Constitutional government and everything to do with setting up governors to take the blame for any and all negative consequences of the pandemic.

Could anyone besides the President have shut down international travel coming into the country? Individual governor's could have shut down direct international flights I suppose (and doing it that way makes less sense to me than a national shutdown), but without shutting them down nationally wouldn't international flights with connecting flights within the US still have posed a problem? What about governors and the test kits? What could have/should have been done there? I don't remember the timeline on the CDC tests.

There was no magic bullet that saves us from dealing with this. It was going to be a problem. But we're experiencing this problem as bad or worse than any other country and it seems to me that back in January/February, recognition of the severity of the incoming wave and taking prudent and decisive federal action were the most effective tools we possessed to put us in a better position today. And I think there's little doubt that we'd be in a better position today had prudent and decisive action been taken. Some action was taken, but it was half-assed and clear at the time that it would not be effective.

Within that umbrella, I'm more than happy to criticize/blame whomever should be criticized/blamed (I don't see why this should be a time when any individuals get a pass on criticism or blame), but the past failings at the federal level are most glaringly obvious and, especially in a year where we're deciding if we want to continue with this administration for another four years (I can't vote out my governor or anyone else's governor this year but I can vote out this administration), I don't think it's unfair or particularly partisan to continue beating the drum that collectively we were failed by those in the highest positions of leadership.

Edit: let me also just add that in the press briefings you see this administration consistently misleading in regards to their early actions on this... Which I think is another reason why the central focus stays on them, or at least why mine does.

JimEverett said:

No - I have stated several times that I aam not blaming anyone - did you not read that? You are the one blaming and I find it odd. Your first paragraph makes the point that this is out of leadership's control - yet you are insistent on blaming Trump. It makes no sense to me.
Especially considering that you seem so intent on providing any possible reason not to blame Democratic leadership whose states are solely, at this time, the only ones above the country's average.
Do you not think that seems ridiculously partisan?


"[D]id what they could"????? Do you not understand how the United States works? It is precisely governors and local officials who make such calls - not the federal government It makes no sense for rural Wyoming to be treated the same way as New York - right?




I am more tired of people taking a pandemic that is affecting the entire western world in roughly the same way and trying to blame the U.S. President for it.

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I believe my second reply covered the bit about the President vs Governors and Mayors.

Brandon13 said:

Could anyone besides the President have shut down international travel coming into the country? Individual governor's could have shut down direct international flights I suppose (and doing it that way makes less sense to me than a national shutdown), but without shutting them down nationally wouldn't international flights with connecting flights within the US still have posed a problem? What about governors and the test kits? What could have/should have been done there? I don't remember the timeline on the CDC tests.

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Did he really shut down China?


That one is over 40k after the ban.


That one is almost half a million after the coronavirus is known about.

So what did he really do?

If you want to find a failure, you could look to reliance on those lying bastages at the crooked World Health Organization.

Also, you could look to failing to realize that SARS was our wake up call.

We can argue about what Democrat or Republican said what in the first quarter of 2020, but that really misses the point IMO.

This failure crosses party lines and can be laid at the feet of multiple administrations. We really should have been far more prepared than we were.

Oh, and the Chinese need to close those filthy wet markets forever. I don't know how many deadly viruses they need to unleash on the world before they can discipline themselves enough not to eat bats.

wardorican said:

I'm not sure what you were trying to argue, since all you did was post the article allegedly refuting everything from the Daily show, and I'm just pointing out that it's lazy, and misleading writing. But, either you agreed with the basics of it, or you don't. And possibly, you didn't read it all, but it sounded like what you wanted to hear.

Yeah, not a fan of Pelosi's comments there.

However, she's not totally wrong. SF isn't that bad. They have it far more under control than LA, or Houston, for sure. I also don't know what date she said that, and if it was also in relation to some of the issues Chinese were facing since this started to break.

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Some math.

Harris County Texas has 5.2 times the population of San Francisco.

To equalize the case numbers lets multiply SF by 5.2

The results are 5247 cases and 46 deaths.

Who is doing better?

Actually those population numbers are likely even more skewed. They are three years old and in the last three years Harris County has been booming and SF has been declining.

BTW, they are both Democrat strongholds.