All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (12 Viewers)

efil4 said:

The state didnt shutter your doors.

They requested that people stay home. At the behest of the Federal govt in conjunction with the FEDERAL COVID task force.

Furthermore, your obligations can be placed on hold as well.

The "market" im assuming you speak of is the market for your goods/services. Not broader overall market. Which, coincidentally affects your smaller market. ITs all connected.

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The State of Alabama did force me to close my doors on 3/28. It was not a request.
https://www.al.com/news/2020/03/all...ewide-ivey-doesnt-issue-shelter-in-place.html

Again, more deception and lies:

Farb said:

The State of Alabama did force me to close my doors on 3/28. It was not a request.
https://www.al.com/news/2020/03/all...ewide-ivey-doesnt-issue-shelter-in-place.html

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again, states take the direction from the Feds. f the Feds say its best to close all non-essential business, then states can issue the order.

That action took place on the 28th and ends on the 17th of April. thats 3 weeks. Thats not a long period of time out of 52 weeks. If your margins are slim, then it could be problematic.

Now for the good news. You have resources available to you to apply for and be granted a 1 ) loan for up to 2.5 times your payroll and use 70% of that toward payroll and 30% towards other items and 2) if you hire back all your employees, it turns into a GRANT not a LOAN.

And im still trying to figure out why you care if the $$$ comes from state or Fed? But regardless, its pretty clear why the Feds are ponying up. Election year, avoiding a total collapse of the market and hopefully giving states guidance as to the severity and consequences if they dont act.

As a business owner, you have a pretty solid safety net to help bridge the 3-5 week closure.

I dont. So what makes me any different than you? Just because you own your own business? Thats it? You get bailed out and i get to watch? There are some who take offense to that.

I dont. I think its ESSENTIAL that businesses have the resources to pay employees and keep the wheels of the local, state and federal economy turning. And honestly, i think it should be MORE for mom/pop shops and LESS for multi billion/national corporations that could have simply socked away a billion or so for a disruptive event such as this. But they pull the levers, so they get the lions share.

I wish you all the best an will be looking to see you back here in 3 months when things are returning to normal and your business is once again thriving.

efil4 said:

im simply clarifying. He seems to be under the impression that the state created his woes.

Coronavirus did. And unfortunately, it caused the federal government to act accordingly.

I think many would have rather had a slow, draw down - but that would have simply extrapolated this out months and months. This is a quick resolution to get back to business as fast as possible in hopes that most abide by the rules and we come out the other side.

This may be one of those times where he finally understands that in business, you have to be prepared for the unexpected, just as us individuals do. You mitigate as much as possible, and when something that arises OUTSIDE of your mitigation efforts, hope that the Feds step in to assist.

im not trying to be devisive here. Im simply pointing out his angst is misplaced.

i lost half of my business ( compared to 2019 ) - i dont qualify for CARES act, i dont qualify for employee payroll due to $100,000 cap ( as an employee of my employer ) and i dont get to apply to the SBA for loan/grant. That doesnt bother me in that 90% will receive help. Im good. I was prepared. Do i like having to dip into my rainy day fund? not all that much, but then thats why i saved one.

But to listen to people talk about how the STATE should be responsible is simply misguided. The states are acting upon guidance from the Administration. If the Administration is NOT providing guidance, then we have a whole other set of issues. ( and i think its the latter, not the former )

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I am not sure what is more condescending being lectured in the 3rd person or being lectured about your business by the Boeing CEO.

I thought you said you had the expensive business interruption insurance that did include pandemic?

I guess me and all the other mom and pop stores/restaurants will go back into our vaults and swim in our gold reserves. fork us we don't have that, am I right?

what dumb arses we all are for running a business they love, that have been in a community for a lifetime, given way more than they have ever asked for back and doing what they love if they couldn't stash away enough funds to continue to operate for 6 months due to a black swan event.

One other question, do you have the link on how to apply for financial assistance from China?

USS Roosevelt's sailors say good bye to their Captain whose actions probably saved lives.

efil4 said:

again, states take the direction from the Feds. f the Feds say its best to close all non-essential business, then states can issue the order.

That action took place on the 28th and ends on the 17th of April. thats 3 weeks. Thats not a long period of time out of 52 weeks. If your margins are slim, then it could be problematic.

Now for the good news. You have resources available to you to apply for and be granted a 1 ) loan for up to 2.5 times your payroll and use 70% of that toward payroll and 30% towards other items and 2) if you hire back all your employees, it turns into a GRANT not a LOAN.

And im still trying to figure out why you care if the $$$ comes from state or Fed? But regardless, its pretty clear why the Feds are ponying up. Election year, avoiding a total collapse of the market and hopefully giving states guidance as to the severity and consequences if they dont act.

As a business owner, you have a pretty solid safety net to help bridge the 3-5 week closure.

I dont. So what makes me any different than you? Just because you own your own business? Thats it? You get bailed out and i get to watch? There are some who take offense to that.

I dont. I think its ESSENTIAL that businesses have the resources to pay employees and keep the wheels of the local, state and federal economy turning. And honestly, i think it should be MORE for mom/pop shops and LESS for multi billion/national corporations that could have simply socked away a billion or so for a disruptive event such as this. But they pull the levers, so they get the lions share.

I wish you all the best an will be looking to see you back here in 3 months when things are returning to normal and your business is once again thriving.

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You said the state didn't close my, doors. They did. I had an office come by Monday to double check. I don't care where they took their inspiration.

So you were so naive to think this was going to be a 2 to 3 week thing? Already got my information to in to my banker but thanks for the update.

I don't care where the money comes from, State or Fed, its all state money to me. The same state i pay taxes to both as a business owner, employee, and employer.

When this is over, those people that are home right now, will need a job to go back to. I know of 5 in my 10 mile radius that will be unemployed if I can't open my doors again and I won't be able to do that if this goes on for more than 2 months, without aid. If you don't want to bail out mom and pop businesses, then you will have a lot of workers on public aid.

Farb said:

You said the state didn't close my, doors. They did. I had an office come by Monday to double check. I don't care where they took their inspiration.

So you were so naive to think this was going to be a 2 to 3 week thing? Already got my information to in to my banker but thanks for the update.

I don't care where the money comes from, State or Fed, its all state money to me. The same state i pay taxes to both as a business owner, employee, and employer.

When this is over, those people that are home right now, will need a job to go back to. I know of 5 in my 10 mile radius that will be unemployed if I can't open my doors again and I won't be able to do that if this goes on for more than 2 months, without aid. If you don't want to bail out mom and pop businesses, then you will have a lot of workers on public aid.

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So, what is your solution then??? To do nothing???

It was I who has the expensive insurance policy.

I think we should provide interest free loans to small businesses who have at least 1 unrelated employee and provide a tax credit for each employee carried during this period. Employer Healthcare premiums should be paused as well. Inventory tax should be paused.

I think that any worker laid off should be able to be draw from SS now and pay back over time without penalty. Commercial rents should be Paused and extended onto the back end for up to 90 days.

Dadsdream said:

All printed federal checks have to have a signature on them and you do that with a digital e-signature on the blank virtual check before they're ever printed. Treasury Secretary, or President, either way. Swapping out one e-signature for another is a 10-second process, like I said.
I e-Sign documents every day. I haven't physically signed a document in several years.

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Not true.

I've worked in check-writing software off and on for almost 30 years. E-signing a document is nothing like putting an authorized signature onto a check, especially if it is a federally secured system. And that speaks nothing to the process of changing the process -- c'mon, you really think a change in putting a new authorized signature onto a federal check isn't going to have to go through all kinds of administrative processes and approvals?

SIYL.

V Chip said:

Not true.

I've worked in check-writing software off and on for almost 30 years. E-signing a document is nothing like putting an authorized signature onto a check, especially if it is a federally secured system. And that speaks nothing to the process of changing the process -- c'mon, you really think a change in putting a new authorized signature onto a federal check isn't going to have to go through all kinds of administrative processes and approvals?

SIYL.

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V-Chip.
No, the process for putting an authorized digital signature on a $5.00 federal check is not the same as e-signing a $200,000.00 contract award document, However, the people who have the warrants to sign $200,000.00 contract documents normally also have the authority to sign checks up to the amount of their warrant.
So, what's the limit on the Chief Executive's signature authority? Hmmm. Good question!

Still, signatures on Treasury checks aren't wet signatures these days. They're all digital, so the idea that there would be a stack of checks to be signed is totally wrong.

Meanwhile, the disbursements are going out electronically as planned.

Dadsdream said:

V-Chip.
No, the process for putting an authorized signature on a $5.00 federal check is not the same as e-signing a $200,000.00 contract award document, However, the people who have the warrants to sign $200,000.00 contract documents normally also have the authority to sign checks up to the amount of their warrant.
So, what's the limit on the Chief Executive's signature authority? Hmmm. Good question!

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Again, if someone who is not already in the system/process needs to be added to the system/process, it is not a 10-minute change.

And again, if you think the laws, rules, and regulations regarding which people are allowed to even be put into the system for signatures on federal printed checks can be easily changed or circumvented, you have forgotten how byzantine those laws/rules/regulations actually are.

EDIT: now I am under no real belief that the system will be changed to put his name on physical checks -- this is his braggadocio, his ego and desire for self-promotional at all costs. It won't really be implemented. But if he had insisted on the change and people actually tried to follow through, it would not have been a simple 10-minute change.

V Chip said:

Again, if someone who is not already in the system/process needs to be added to the system/process, it is not a 10-minute change.

And again, if you think the laws, rules, and regulations regarding which people are allowed to even be put into the system for signatures on federal printed checks can be easily changed or circumvented, you have forgotten how byzantine those laws/rules/regulations actually are.

EDIT: now I am under no real belief that the system will be changed to put his name on physical checks -- this is his braggadocio, his ego and desire for self-promotional at all costs. It won't really be implemented. But if he had insisted on the change and people actually tried to follow through, it would not have been a simple 10-minute change.

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So, you don't think the Chief Executive would be in the system?
OK.

EDIT: I too believe this was braggadocio. It was needling, to get a rise out of his opponents. Joe Biden stepped all over it too. No, I don't think it will be implemented either.

A lot to unpack since I was last here

Dadsdream said:

The "liar" theme has become so repetitious, so trite and mundane that multiple people can't seem to find anything else to talk about.
Worse, nobody else can respond to any discussion of any type without first uttering a gratuitous "Trump is a liar" statement, sort of like a pass phrase.

Poster 1: "I'd like to talk about economic . . ."
Poster 2: "Stop right there. Trump is a liar. You didn't say Trump is a liar!"
Poster 3; "Yeah! You HAVE to say Trump is a liar first!"
Poster 4: "You're a Trump supporter so that make you a liar too, you know!"
Poster 1: "Never mind."

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The way to prove that Trump isn’t a liar is to demonstrate that his quote was, in fact, true. If you can’t do that, it’s because it’s a lie.

The opinions of Republicans and Democrats have no bearing on this.

Farb said:

I never questioned your intellect. I questioned your broad attempt to bring in your socialist agenda during a black swan event. Its dishonest.

Again, if the market dictated that I have to close business (lack of revenue, bad business practices, inventory that doesn't have a demand, ect...) then yes, I would not expect a dime from the government. However, since the state told me I had to close my business then the state is obligated to reimburse me so that I can pay my land lord, pay my workers, pay my creditors, pay the state( that will happen).

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If the government had allowed your business to stay open, it would still have failed due to the pandemic. The shelter in place orders are to keep people from dying, not to shut down the economy.

Let’s say they let you stay open. When you failed because everyone was staying home trying not to die, you would not expect a dime from the government, right?

So since there is no difference in the net outcome of whether your business failed because the government closed it or the business failed because the market closed it because we have no economy, we can assume that you will either a) be rejecting the handout or b) admit that you’re cool with socialism when it benefits you

JimEverett said:

For taxpayers it is a tax credit. For non-taxpayers it is welfare. I am sure there are many who do not think non-taxpayers should have received anything - and I imagine all of them were Republicans. Wasn't that something that delayed the bill for a little while?

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How does one get a tax credit on money they haven’t earned yet?

And if that tax credit in no way changes a person’s actual tax liability for the year in any meaningful way, and affects all tax brackets and non taxpayers exactly the same, isn’t calling it a tax credit really just accounting semantics to avoid calling it a socialist handout?

Beach Friends said:

Hoping things work out for yah.

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Can't wait to see the snarky comments about 3 months from now.

not2rich said:

Can't wait to see the snarky comments about 3 months from now.

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Lol, good luck with that.

Beach Friends said:

Lol, good luck with that.

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No, seriously, I'm looking forward to your snarky comments about 3 months from now. Start writing your material now.

not2rich said:

Can't wait to see the snarky comments about 3 months from now.

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not2rich said:

No, seriously, I'm looking forward to your snarky comments about 3 months from now. Start writing your material now.

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. Man you made me spit out beer. That's alcohol abuse. With the way this pandemic has been handled by the trump administration, if we all make it through this, the states will have been strengthened simply because they will have worked together without the help of the president during a national emergency to pull the country through. In fact, they will have made it in spite of the presidents best efforts to mess it up with sheer incompetence.