Immigration is completely out of control (4 Viewers)

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    SystemShock

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    A couple of days ago, one of the main US-MX border points of entry was blocked by 1000's of migrants demanding entry into the country, which caused chaos for those who lawfully cross the border on business, for work, or for delivery of goods, both ways.

    Lawful border crossings are getting progressively worse across the border, and drug cartels are finding it easier to move product, as the CBP has to transfer personnel and efforts to the processing of migrants.

    It's not different on MX's South border. Yesterday, ~5000 migrants stormed into Chiapas all the way to the INM building (INM is immigration) running over fences, barricades, and elements of the National Guard. They are now taking over an ecological park in Tapachula, Chiapas, which it's going to be severely affected, as it's been the case with just about everywhere migrants squat.

    Unfortunately, Juan Trump (that's Donald Trump's pet name for the President of México) was bamboozled by his "friend" Donald into making MX a "lobby" for migrants trying to reach the U.S.

    Many people would argue that migrants are "good for the economy", but that is not always the case. Billions of dollars leave the U.S. economy every year, because migrants send money from the U.S. to other countries to support families there. The biggest destinations are India and MX, to the tune of 100 billion dollars in 2023 alone, according to the Bank of México (kind of like the MX version of the Fed). These billions of dollars do not circulate in the U.S. economy.

    Speaking of inflation, the past year, the U.S. dollar has lost ~20% of its value against the MX peso. One of the main reasons for it, is the amount of money being sent to MX from the U.S. And MX is the U.S. 2nd largest trading partner.

    Gregg Abbott is a lot of things, but I don't blame him for his attempts at curbing the hordes of people demanding entry into the U.S., even the busing of migrants to other States, making some put their money where their mouth is, like the Mayor of NYC, who was so welcoming of migrants, until he he got a taste, then went crying to the federal government for more money, while the shelters were at full capacity; shelters which BTW serve the NYC poor as well.

    And please, no one mention a wall. There is a wall. A wall can be climbed; a wall can be dug under.; holes can be punched through walls.
     
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    By the mid-1990s, partly as a way to deal with the gangs and partly as a product of the get-tough immigration push toward the end of the presidency of Bill Clinton, the US government began a program of deportation of foreign-born residents convicted of a wide range of crimes. This enhanced deportation policy vastly increased the number of gang members being sent home to El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, and elsewhere.

    According to one estimate, 20,000 criminals returned to Central America between 2000 and 2004. That trend continues US immigration authorities removed nearly 6,000 suspected gang members in 2018 alone – around 1,300 of them from the MS13.

    Central American governments, some of the poorest and most ineffective in the Western Hemisphere, were not capable of dealing with the criminal influx, nor were they properly forewarned by US authorities.

    The convicts, who often had only the scarcest connection to their countries of birth, had little chance of integrating into legitimate society, and they often turned to gang life. In this way, the decision to use immigration policy as an anti-gang tool helped spawn the virulent growth of the gang in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala.
    ==================


    Btw, the US is also responsible for the reason those Central American immigrants that were in LA to begin with. Due to our support of coups and dictators in that region in our covert CIA missions to fight communism that destabilized those countries and caused the internal conflicts that led to the migration. So we double dipped. Yay for US!

    ============
    The MS13 was founded in the poor, marginalized neighborhoods of Los Angeles in the 1980s. As a result of the civil wars wracking El Salvador, Guatemala and Nicaragua, refugees flooded northward. Many of them wound up in California, living among the mostly Mexican neighborhoods of East and Central Los Angeles, as well as the San Fernando Valley.
    ============


    This is also why DACA was so important.

    Most of the people who made MS-13 what it is today, came here as kids, but they had no hope of opportunity because they weren't legal.

    Obama made sure that the current generation didn't fall into that trap.
     

    Exclusive: Texas troopers told to push children into Rio Grande, deny water to migrants, records say​


    WASHINGTON — Officers working for Gov. Greg Abbott’s border security initiative have been ordered to push small children and nursing babies back into the Rio Grande, and have been told not to give water to asylum seekers even in extreme heat, according to an email from a Department of Public Safety trooper who described the actions as “inhumane.”

    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/border-trooper-migrants-wire-18205076.php
     
    First off, you literally erase everything I said in my post by quoting me like this in your response to me. How Trumpian of you.

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    Let me tell you what happened here.

    You jumped into a conversation, in which I asked "what kind of parent sends their kid(s) by themselves on a 1-2000 mile trek on foot across many countries, among thousands of people they don't know, with nothing but the clothes they have in their backs."

    The reply I got was "a good parent".

    I reply to that "Listen to yourself"

    Then you jumped into it "heal thyself".
    Yes, that is accurately what happened.

    So I have to ask,...
    Actually, you chose to ask me something, you didn't have to do anything at all. That was all your choice. Now, let's breakdown what you chose to do.

    ...are you agreeing with the sentiment that a good parent would send their kid(s) by themselves on a 1-2000 mile trek on foot across many countries, among thousands of people they don't know, with nothing but the clothes they have in their backs?
    Already asked by you and answered by me.

    Maybe if you had read my response carefully and completely, you would have seen my answer to you.

    Maybe if you hadn't blah blah blahed my entire post you would have seen my answer.

    I'm not going to answer you again. Everyone else saw my answer and that's good enough for me.

    Or did you just feel the need to "put me down"?
    "Physician, heal thyself," is not a put down or a "put down" (whatever that's supposed to mean). It's simply a reminder to someone that they are accusing or criticizing others of what they do themselves. If you felt "put down" by it, that's a you issue, because I had no intention of putting you down or "putting you down."

    As for the rest, I do have certain experience which I will not divulge here... other than that, I have experience with both INM and INS;...
    Do you have direct experience with tens of thousands of the more than 2.2 million people traveling through Mexico to the US? If you don't, then you don't have sufficient experience to be so cocksure about the things you are so cocksure about regarding the more than 2.2 million people traveling through Mexico to the US.

    ...also, here in MX, news networks are not like U.S. networks: they don't take sides like FOX/Newsmax vis a vis CNN/MSNBC... for the most part, they just deliver the news and raw footage of events;...
    Everyone thinks their news sources of choice are giving them a comprehensive and unbiased view, so there's that.

    ...so yeah, we get kids crying,...
    What's the total number of kids you have seen crying across all of the reports you have seen?

    ...but we also learn of kids disappearing, dying, sex traffic...
    Whats the total number of kids that you have heard reports of them disappearing, dying or being sex trafficked?

    ...get to see the mayhem of 100's if not 1000's attacking the police, taking over and destroying INM offices, holding people hostage...
    What's the percentage of 1000's divided by more than 2.2 million?

    ...the aftermath of thousands of people walking down the road making MX a trash can, complaining about the food, clothing, healthcare, and even the soap they are given, even when some Mexican can't get that...

    Traditionally my hometown of Mérida was mostly a port of entry for Cubans, Koreans (good sized Korean population here) with the occasional Haitian family making it ashore... now we are experiencing problems with people coming into the country illegally we didn't have before, and Mérida is not even on the path from Guatemala to the U.S. border... people from C.A., Venezuela, Colombia... as far away as India, Ghana, Russia...

    The State of Chiapas is a mess. There just isn't enough police to control the battalions of immigrants coming across, and effectively police the Mexican populace.

    And so are towns along the U.S.-MX border. Commerce is being disrupted. And this is not commerce between Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk.. they are disrupting commerce of small and medium businesses, on both sides of the border. And not just commerce, but people who cross the border either way to go to work.
    You've made it clear, for quite some time now, that you are angry about the more than 2.2 million people traveling through Mexico to get to the US. I understand your anger, but I think it's misplaced.

    You seem most angry at the people traveling through Mexico and US immigration policy.

    I think being angry at the people traveling through Mexico and the multitude of parents you allege are callously sending their children through Mexico alone is misplaced. You detail how treacherous and perilous the journey is, yet you never seem to stop and think it through. Why would millions of people expose themselves or their children to so much possible pain and suffering? Is it something you do just on a whim or for kicks? Is it something someone would do in pursuit of greed? For nearly every human being on the planet, the only reason you take that kind of risk is because your current situation is even worse and more desperate. Nearly all of those more than 2.2 million people are trying to escape a terrible and desperate situation. Your denials of that fact are unsubstantiated allegations, irrational, disrespectful and cold-hearted, to be frank.

    I think being angry at US immigration policy is misplaced. Mexico is responsible for who travels through their country. No one else is. What you describe above is more a failing on Mexico's part than it is on the US's part, unless there's a treaty I don't know about that makes Mexico subservient to the US in regards to Mexico's immigration policies.

    Why does Mexico allow all of those people to travel through their country and do all the harm to Mexico that you say they are doing?

    But don't let any of those facts get you off your high horse.
    I'm not the one who blah blah blah's someone's entire post, ignores inconvenient facts and is on a high horsie. So we end up were we started at; physician, heal thyself.
     
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    They were plenty of gang issues way before the 90's. The friends I had from C.A. (except Costa Rica and Panama) in college in the 80's, all have bullet proof cars and carried weapons back home because of gangs, because (who'd have thought) gangs like to take from the people who have stuff... it's more lucrative.
    In one post you acknowledge that there is a serious gang problem in Central America, while in other posts saying there is nothing in Central America for people to flee from or seek asylum from. Rampant gang terrorism is a valid reason to flee from and seek asylum from.
     
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    A few details of the Senate deal. I don’t know enough to say anything about it.

     
    A few details of the Senate deal. I don’t know enough to say anything about it.



    I wish we could see the language.

    Right now, almost everyone who crosses seeks out border patrol. We aren't having to spend many resources to catch people.

    If they make it so that after a certain number of people, they get sent back to Mexico, people will just avoid being caught, and turn themselves in much futher into the US.
     
    I wish we could see the language.

    Right now, almost everyone who crosses seeks out border patrol. We aren't having to spend many resources to catch people.

    If they make it so that after a certain number of people, they get sent back to Mexico, people will just avoid being caught, and turn themselves in much futher into the US.
    I assume it will be out shortly.
     
    This is what I hope will happen. I’ve seen reports that migrants have learned to avoid the area where the TX troops are.

     

    I’m surprised that the bill would authorize the president to shut down the border, and Biden said he would use the authority immediately. How exactly would that be done? That seems awfully draconian, and a big turn rightward. It would certainly wipe that issue away. Are there any right wingers on the board that dispute this?
     

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