Durham investigation (Update: Sussman acquitted) (6 Viewers)

Snarky Sack said:

I'm not pretending anything.

Let's not pretend that Hillary Clinton did not initiate a phony claim of Trump-Russia collusion that took the country down a bad road that we are still sharply divided over.

If ever there was an incredibly selfish witch in a high position in this country, it was she.

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Let's not pretend that it wasn't Trump's own weird remarks about Putin that led this country down that road. Trump brought every bit of it on himself and the country through his bizarre expressed love and respect for the ruthless Russian authoritarian.

BullSheetBuddha said:

Let's not pretend that it wasn't Trump's own weird remarks about Putin that led this country down that road. Trump brought every bit of it on himself and the country through his bizarre expressed love and respect for the ruthless Russian authoritarian.

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So you believe that Clinton bears no responsibility at all? Somehow Trump's remarks about Putin forced her to pay a private company to dig up fake dirt about Trump colluding with Russia?

Snarky Sack said:

So you believe that Clinton bears no responsibility at all? Somehow Trump's remarks about Putin forced her to pay a private company to dig up fake dirt about Trump colluding with Russia?

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Come on man, Trump opened himself up to it over and over again.

Trump Brags About His Deep and Enduring Bond With Putin as Russia Rapes and Murders Ukrainians​

The former president once again refuses to say a single bad thing about his favorite authoritarian.

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https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-bond

BullSheetBuddha said:

Come on man, Trump opened himself up for it, period.

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So Clinton was helpless?

Snarky Sack said:

So Clinton was helpless?

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It's not about Clinton. It's about Trump's constant praise of a ruthless Russian adversary.

The people complaining about lefties ignoring their interpretations of Clinton's actions with the Steele docs are the same people that are ignoring Russian Intel Officer Kilimnik's direct link to the Trump campaign via Manafort and the voter data that was provided to the Russian effort.

DJ1BigTymer said:

The people complaining about lefties ignoring their interpretations of Clinton's actions with the Steele docs are the same people that are ignoring Russian Intel Officer Kilimnik's direct link to the Trump campaign via Manafort and the voter data that was provided to the Russian effort.

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The cognitive dissonance is just glaringly obvious. They have accepted the spin and no facts will dissuade them from believing the lies. It’s really sad actually. These are grown men, and they sound like little boys on a school yard trying to taunt other kids.

MT15 said:

Just off the top of my head:

Instead of reporting contact from a foreign government to the FBI, as required, the Trump campaign booked a meeting with a Russian government representative (they thought) promising dirt on Clinton. They were quite excited about this contact. It was well attended and they were disappointed the representative didn’t come forward with anything they could use. Whenever this has happened in the past, campaigns have reported this type of contact.

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Just days after news of the infamous Trump Tower meeting drew the attention of Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation, the translator present told the FBI there was no talk of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin, according to recently released documents.

This exculpatory evidence – which backed accounts of Donald Trump Jr. and other campaign officials in attendance – was not mentioned in Special Counsel Mueller’s final report two years later. And the silence in the interim occurred as sinister theorizing on cable TV and in the press helped shape a public impression of the June 9, 2016 meeting as central to collusion.

The new documents record that on July 12, 2017, four days after the New York Times first disclosed the meeting, relying on government leaks, the FBI interviewed Anatoli Samochornov, a freelance translator with long ties to the U.S. government who had been engaged by the Russian side. Elaborating the day after its initial report, the Times used more leaks to report that Trump Jr. had agreed to the meeting because he was told that a Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, would provide damaging information on Hillary Clinton.

Whatever the suspicions raised by the Trump son's emailed response, "If it's what you say I love it," the meeting didn't live up to the billing, judging from what the translator told the FBI. Bureau notes show he told agents, “There was no discussion of the 2016 United States presidential election or Collusion between the Russian government and the Trump campaign.” The agent notes also state, “There was no smoking gun according to Samochornov. There was not a discussion about ‘dirt’ on Hillary Clinton. Samochornov did not think Hillary Clinton was mentioned by name.”

Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya was also working with Fusion GPS(created the discredited Steele Dossier) and she met with Fusion GPS before and after that Trump Tower meeting. It turns out that Fusion GPS gave Veselnitskaya the document for that meeting. Sounds like a honeypot scheme.

MT15 said:

Roger Stone was in communication with either WikiLeaks or a representative of them to coordinate the release of hacked communications from the DNC. They specifically coordinated this to offset the famous “grab them by the P-word” tape. WikiLeaks is a known cutout for the Russian government.

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Roger Stone had no ties or connections to WikiLeaks which his trial showed.


NYT & Washington Post:

MT15 said:

Trump’s campaign openly welcomed the use of hacked material (hacked by Russia). They celebrated it - remember Don Jr’s email - “I love it, especially later in the fall”?

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The "I love it" from Don Jr was about the Trump Tower meeting and it wasn't about hacked material.

Samochornov told the FBI that Veselnitskaya had dangled one piece of potentially partisan political information before the Trump officials – the claim that business associates of William Browder, the American businessman behind the passage of the Magnitsky Act, had made illicit donations to Democratic campaigns. Interview notes state that “Samochornov did not know if the donation(s) were made directly to the Clinton campaign, the Democratic National Committee, or a political action committee.”

This allegation, which was trumpeted by Russian President Vladimir Putin, was false. In November of 2017, Reuters reported that Fusion GPS – the Washington, D.C., opposition research firm paid by the Clinton campaign to compile the debunked Steele “dossier” used by the FBI to obtain warrants to spy on the Trump campaign – had provided Veselnitskaya with the bogus Browder-connected dirt before the Trump Tower meeting.

MT15 said:

Russia hacked both the DNC and the RNC. But they chose to release only the DNC emails. Wonder why? Because Russia was trying pretty hard to get Trump elected.

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And? How's that relevant to the Trump colluded with Russia to affect the election narrative that Clinton created?

MT15 said:

Manafort volunteered to work on Trump’s campaign. He didn’t take a salary. He also flew around to meet with Russian oligarchs and give them private campaign polling data. Unprecedented contact with a hostile foreign government by a US Presidential campaign.

if you want to see in chart form - this is a good article:

All of Trump’s Ties to Russia, in 7 Charts

A visual guide to the many links between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin’s Russia.

www.politico.com

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MUELLER DISMISSES LEADING COLLUSION THEORY: The investigation "did not identify evidence of a connection between Manafort's sharing polling data & Russia's interference" & "did not establish that Manafort otherwisecoordinated with the Russian gov't on its election-interference."

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This was the pattern for Operation Crossfire-Hurricane: Chase down supposed example of collusion and when they turn out to be non-existent, pretend that was never what you meant by "collusion."

Fair bit of revisionism going on here. Mueller made very clear from the beginning that collusion isn’t a legal term and he wouldn’t be investigating for it. He was looking for proof of a conspiracy. He was obstructed in his investigation by multiple people and some of them were convicted of that crime. Trump couldn’t be charged because he was president, but Mueller outlined 10 (I think) instances of Trump obstructing justice in his report. My personal opinion - if Jan 6 hadn’t happened, Trump may well have found himself under indictment for obstruction of justice once the Biden Admin took over. As it was, they have bigger fish to fry.

Collusion (meaning an informal cooperation) - there was plenty of that. That is just fact.

The meeting in Trump Tower - yes, SFL, you are correct about Jr’s comment it was in reference to that meeting, so thanks for that. But whether the meeting contained the actual information doesn’t really matter - taking the meeting and being excited about getting help from the Russian government with hacked material - is proof of the willingness to cooperate (or collude).

I don’t really know if Stone had contact with Assange, I do know he thought he was communicating with a Russian spy at one point. Once again, the willingness to collude to sway the election was there. The pardons of Stone and Manafort were manifestly corrupt, IMO. They both belong in jail.

Once again - SFL - your posts are just horrible to look at. Can you just condense them a bit? They take up the whole page, they are just cut and paste and in very large format for some reason. Maybe just post the most pertinent tweet instead of 8 or 10?

I will admit - I would actually read more of what you post. As it is, I just scroll past the wall of tweets.

MT15 said:

Collusion (meaning an informal cooperation) - there was plenty of that. That is just fact.

The meeting in Trump Tower - yes, SFL, you are correct about Jr’s comment it was in reference to that meeting, so thanks for that. But whether the meeting contained the actual information doesn’t really matter - taking the meeting and being excited about getting help from the Russian government with hacked material - is proof of the willingness to cooperate (or collude).

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Exactly correct.

• A couple of bank robbers plan a bank robbery.
• They then break into a bank and vault.
• They are surprised to find the vault is empty.
• They run away.
• Later, they're interrogated, because investigators got a hold of their texts in which they communicated to each other their plan to rob the bank.

They tell investigators, "Yeah, we wanted to rob the bank, we broke into the bank and vault, but the vault was empty, so we didn't actually rob the bank."

Does anyone honestly believe those two bank robbers aren't going to be indicted and likely convicted for trying to rob a bank?

MT15 said:

Collusion (meaning an informal cooperation) - there was plenty of that. That is just fact.

The meeting in Trump Tower - yes, SFL, you are correct about Jr’s comment it was in reference to that meeting, so thanks for that. But whether the meeting contained the actual information doesn’t really matter - taking the meeting and being excited about getting help from the Russian government with hacked material - is proof of the willingness to cooperate (or collude).

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It also makes perfect sense for it to turn out that the meeting was not about dirt on the Clintons. Russia is smart enough to know that meeting with a presidential candidate and offering them assistance like dirt on Hillary is illegal. So, they aren't going to walk into a meeting with that information. They are going to walk in with something else completely, and if it's a set up, they have clean hands. Once they determine that Trump's people are not setting them up, they will work towards getting them the dirt in exchange for something (like potentially lessening sanctions on adoptions---the very thing they talked about, apparently in that meeting).

This thread needs to die. This crap is old and irrelevant to any current events.

@1h 26 mins, he doesn't look good about his knowledge of the Russian election meddling. Frankly, his response to Schiff and Stalwell doesn't bode well for his competence. Stalwell asked if Biden restricted him in anyway, particularly indicting Hillary, and he admits that there wasn't any evidence to indict her. And @ 3h 26 min he admits that Russian hacked Hillary's emails and released them.

UriUT said:

@1h 26 mins, he doesn't look good about his knowledge of the Russian election meddling. Frankly, his response to Schiff and Stalwell doesn't bode well for his competence. Stalwell asked if Biden restricted him in anyway, particularly indicting Hillary, and he admits that there wasn't any evidence to indict her. And @ 3h 26 min he admits that Russian hacked Hillary's emails and released them.

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Not watching all that, but I did see those highlights. Durham had a decent reputation before this, now most folks think a lot less of him because of this hack investigation that didn’t uncover a single new fact.

MT15 said:

Fair bit of revisionism going on here. Mueller made very clear from the beginning that collusion isn’t a legal term and he wouldn’t be investigating for it. He was looking for proof of a conspiracy. He was obstructed in his investigation by multiple people and some of them were convicted of that crime. Trump couldn’t be charged because he was president, but Mueller outlined 10 (I think) instances of Trump obstructing justice in his report. My personal opinion - if Jan 6 hadn’t happened, Trump may well have found himself under indictment for obstruction of justice once the Biden Admin took over. As it was, they have bigger fish to fry.

Collusion (meaning an informal cooperation) - there was plenty of that. That is just fact.

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And Mueller found: "Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian Government."

Oh so it it's weren't for the obstruction Mueller would have been able to expose the whole Trump Russia Collusion plan? Or as Durham calls it The Clinton Intelligence Plan.

Also, Mueller didn't indict or convict one single American of conspiracy with Russia to affect the election.

MT15 said:

The meeting in Trump Tower - yes, SFL, you are correct about Jr’s comment it was in reference to that meeting, so thanks for that. But whether the meeting contained the actual information doesn’t really matter - taking the meeting and being excited about getting help from the Russian government with hacked material - is proof of the willingness to cooperate (or collude).

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The same meeting where Fusion GPS met with Natalia Veselnitskaya before and after the Trump Tower meeting and Fusion GPS also gave Veselnitskaya the documents for the meeting.

The same Fusion GPS who created the BS Steele Dossier and who was pushing the Clinton created Trump Russia Collusion narrative.

The meeting was clearly a setup by Fusion GPS and Clinton.

MT15 said:

I don’t really know if Stone had contact with Assange, I do know he thought he was communicating with a Russian spy at one point. Once again, the willingness to collude to sway the election was there. The pardons of Stone and Manafort were manifestly corrupt, IMO. They both belong in jail.

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Yes you do know. I showed you what came out in the Stone trial. Stone had no connection or access to Assange or WikiLeaks besides one Twitter DM where Wikileaks admonished Stone for suggesting that they had a connection and threatened to call out his lie publicly.

Stone thought he was communicating with a Russia spy? According to who? Lawfare? Stone had no connections. He lied about it all.

So there isn't any of the Trump Russia allegations that haven't been discredited by now. I showed all the ones you listed have been discredited.

And we have Durham revealing that Hillary created the Trump Russia collusion narrative.