What happens to the Republican Party now? (17 Viewers)

MT15 said:

This is a chilling article that details the many conservative groups that are actively planning for a second Trump term. I would especially be interested in Steve’s take on it, as it seems to be a well-coordinated and well funded effort to basically dismantle many of our institutions should Trump win in 2024. What is equally disconcerting is that most of this planning could easily pivot to someone like DeSantis if Trump doesn’t run. Its a long article, so even if you can’t read it all, you‘ll get the drift pretty quickly. One sickening fact: Trump currently has more money in his PAC than the RNC and DNC combined. If you don’t think Trump will be a big factor in R politics for the future, I’d like to hear a reason for that belief.

Inside Trump '25: A radical plan for Trump’s second term

Allies want to empower him to purge potentially thousands of civil servants.

www.axios.com

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AXIOS....Google states it was founded in 2016 and launched by 3 male (Google names them) Politico journalists the following year.
Politico.... Are they heavily progressive leaning or not?
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I read the Axios article for a minute and a half and I get the main idea.
It's possible much of the author's article is true. Trump people ARE ANTI SWAMP.
Yet....shouldn't Donald Trump be charged with crimes?
Shouldn't his actions on Jan. 6th allow him to be indicted?
Is he really a viable candidate?
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Yes , We all heard Trump talk about "The Swamp". He was going to "root out or remove those involved in The Swamp". SOME people take his use of "The Swamp" and equate it with the 2 words: "Deep State". So if Trump hypothetically achieved a 2nd term ( which he won't) then hypothetically he might try to put actions to his former words. He hypothetically might try to eliminate various stuff.
All hypothetical for your passing the time today.
None of it will happen. Trump should be on trial for not protecting his VP and every legislator in the Capitol.

SteveSBrickNJ said:

AXIOS....Google states it was founded in 2016 and launched by 3 male (Google names them) Politico journalists the following year.
Politico.... Are they heavily progressive leaning or not?
*
*
I read the Axios article for a minute and a half and I get the main idea.
It's possible much of the author's article is true. Trump people ARE ANTI SWAMP.
Yet....shouldn't Donald Trump be charged with crimes?
Shouldn't his actions on Jan. 6th allow him to be indicted?
Is he really a viable candidate?
*
Yes , We all heard Trump talk about "The Swamp". He was going to "root out or remove those involved in The Swamp". So if he hypothetically achieved a 2nd term ( which he won't) then hypothetically he might try to put actions to his former words.
All hypothetical for your passing the time today.
None of it will happen.

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What these conservative groups are attempting to do isn’t really rooting out corruption, you should realize. What they will do is replace the core of our institutions with party loyalists, who will no longer have the good of the country in mind, but rather the good of the party. They intend to change our institutions so much that they are unrecognizable. We would resemble Hungary more than our current form of government. They aren’t shy about their admiration for that particular authoritarian state.

Right now our agencies have their own missions and goals and there is a layer of civil servants who stay no matter who is in the WH to carry on the mission of the agency - food and drug safety for the FDA, for example. What these conservatives are getting ready to do isn’t to eliminate waste - you don’t have to dismantle everything to do that. What they are preparing to do is to fill these protected positions with political ideologues whose first loyalty is to Trump (or whatever conservative in the image of Trump they can find, like DeSantis). It specifically says that they don’t want the next term to be constrained by career lawyers in DOJ, for example, telling the president that what he wants to do is illegal. They want lawyers who will just carry out orders.

You can ignore this burgeoning authoritarian movement - but it’s not wise to do so. We need to keep informed of what they are planning or we will wake up and our ability to self-govern will be gone.

Steve - Media Bias / Fact Check is a good place to look up your news sources. Here is their main takeaway about Axios:

• Overall, we rate Axios just Left of Center biased based on story selection that slightly favors the left. They are High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and zero failed fact checks.

I would encourage you to use it liberally, (get it? Lol).


Here is their handy sliding scale for Axios compared to a source you used the other day:

MT15 said:

What these conservative groups are attempting to do isn’t really rooting out corruption, you should realize. What they will do is replace the core of our institutions with party loyalists, who will no longer have the good of the country in mind, but rather the good of the party. They intend to change our institutions so much that they are unrecognizable. We would resemble Hungary more than our current form of government. They aren’t shy about their admiration for that particular authoritarian state.

Right now our agencies have their own missions and goals and there is a layer of civil servants who stay no matter who is in the WH to carry on the mission of the agency - food and drug safety for the FDA, for example. What these conservatives are getting ready to do isn’t to eliminate waste - you don’t have to dismantle everything to do that. What they are preparing to do is to fill these protected positions with political ideologues whose first loyalty is to Trump (or whatever conservative in the image of Trump they can find, like DeSantis). It specifically says that they don’t want the next term to be constrained by career lawyers in DOJ, for example, telling the president that what he wants to do is illegal. They want lawyers who will just carry out orders.

You can ignore this burgeoning authoritarian movement - but it’s not wise to do so. We need to keep informed of what they are planning or we will wake up and our ability to self-govern will be gone.

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Regarding your 2nd sentence. From THEIR point of view, they hypothetically would put in "America First" people....FOR THE GOOD of the country. You find that scary but they seem to find it to be hopeful. What you feel is good for the country and what they feel is good for the country are so polar opposite. Lol....I feel like a mediator

SteveSBrickNJ said:

Regarding your 2nd sentence. From THEIR point of view, they hypothetically would put in "America First" people....FOR THE GOOD of the country. You find that scary but they seem to find it to be hopeful. What you feel is good for the country and what they feel is good for the country are so polar opposite. Lol....I feel like a mediator

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Except one side is demonstrably wrong in this scenario and anyone trying to mediate or equivocate is just as bad as the people actually undermining our democratic processes.

SteveSBrickNJ said:

Regarding your 2nd sentence. From THEIR point of view, they hypothetically would put in "America First" people....FOR THE GOOD of the country. You find that scary but they seem to find it to be hopeful. What you feel is good for the country and what they feel is good for the country are so polar opposite. Lol....I feel like a mediator

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What I feel is good for the country is remaining a representative democracy/republic based on the rule of law and the Constitution as we have been since founding. Guaranteeing rights for people, and allowing for the plurality of the population with a healthy separation between church and state and a fiercely independent press. Everything else (how we get there) is negotiable.

That isn’t what they believe. At all. This should be obvious by now to everyone who isn’t part of the Trumpist wing.

MT15 said:

What I feel is good for the country is remaining a representative democracy/republic based on the rule of law and the Constitution as we have been since founding. Guaranteeing rights for people, and allowing for the plurality of the population with a healthy separation between church and state and a fiercely independent press. Everything else (how we get there) is negotiable.

That isn’t what they believe. At all. This should be obvious by now to everyone who isn’t part of the Trumpist wing.

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I don't think they believe in becoming Hungary.
I like your 1st paragraph though!
The Republican party I am HOPING will prevail would agree with your first paragraph.
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When Obama was president there were a number of Republicans who kept claiming that we should be alarmed. Their warning was: "Obama is trying to get around the Constitution. He is using numerous Executive Orders to get around the Constitution." One guest after another appeared on Fox News and stressed how Republicans want to keep America a Republic...A governmental Republic based on the Constitution.
Now you fear that they have done a 180....they don't want that anymore.
Shortly after taking office, Obama went on an international "apology tour". republicans said: "Now he wants to turn America in a Socialist direction". That was then. Yet...Have they all passed away?
I want a country with 3 equal branches ....checks and balances....and the government is founded on the Constitution.
I am a REGULAR REPUBLICAN.
WE ARE NOT EXTINCT.
It is more interesting for liberal media to fixate on Trump and his followers....but there are tons of Steves in the country. We just don't lend ourselves to marketable internet stories.

SteveSBrickNJ said:

I don't think they believe in becoming Hungary.
I like your 1st paragraph though!
The Republican party I am HOPING will prevail would agree with your first paragraph.
*
When Obama was president there were a number of Republicans who kept claiming that we should be alarmed. Their warning was: "Obama is trying to get around the Constitution. He is using numerous Executive Orders to get around the Constitution." One guest after another appeared on Fox News and stressed how Republicans want to keep America a Republic...A governmental Republic based on the Constitution.
Now you fear that they have done a 180....they don't want that anymore.
Shortly after taking office, Obama went on an international "apology tour". republicans said: "Now he wants to turn America in a Socialist direction". That was then. Yet...Have they all passed away?
I want a country with 3 equal branches ....checks and balances....and the government is founded on the Constitution.
I am a REGULAR REPUBLICAN.
WE ARE NOT EXTINCT.
It is more interesting for liberal media to fixate on Trump and his followers....but there are tons of Steves in the country. We just don't lend ourselves to marketable internet stories.

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You may be correct - but we don’t know yet. And the fact that 48% of Rs prefer Trump to be the candidate in 2024 tells me that we‘re not out of the woods.

Yes, I remember the fear mongering for Obama. However, Obama didn’t actually try to stay in the WH once his term was up. We have a different situation now.

The Trumpist wing - a substantial portion of the R party by any measure - most certainly does want to be like Hungary. CPAC had their last meeting in Hungary so they can figure out how Orban got it done. Tucker Carlson fawns over Orban when he’s not fawning over Putin. They are moving away from democracy and toward an authoritarian state.

Read some Tom Nichols, or almost anyone at The Bulwark, if you want the conservative perspective on this subject.

Here is an example. A county sheriff taking power over counting ballots is never a good idea - never. They are political appointees or elected officials (depending on locality) and this wouldn’t provide the bipartisan way our elections are currently run. We have a really good election process with all kinds of checks and balances. These wanna be authoritarians want to take over because they didn’t like the results. Based on lies.

SteveSBrickNJ said:

I don't think they believe in becoming Hungary.
I like your 1st paragraph though!
The Republican party I am HOPING will prevail would agree with your first paragraph.
*
When Obama was president there were a number of Republicans who kept claiming that we should be alarmed. Their warning was: "Obama is trying to get around the Constitution. He is using numerous Executive Orders to get around the Constitution." One guest after another appeared on Fox News and stressed how Republicans want to keep America a Republic...A governmental Republic based on the Constitution.
Now you fear that they have done a 180....they don't want that anymore.
Shortly after taking office, Obama went on an international "apology tour". republicans said: "Now he wants to turn America in a Socialist direction". That was then. Yet...Have they all passed away?
I want a country with 3 equal branches ....checks and balances....and the government is founded on the Constitution.
I am a REGULAR REPUBLICAN.
WE ARE NOT EXTINCT.
It is more interesting for liberal media to fixate on Trump and his followers....but there are tons of Steves in the country. We just don't lend ourselves to marketable internet stories.

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Not as many as you think, given how many elected Republicans at both the state and federal level have shirt on everything you claim to hold dear. The entire crop of Republicans in Congress, with maybe 2 exceptions, has abdicated all checking and balancing duties. They have demonstrated through their own actions, or lack thereof, that if they don't get their way, they will grind the government to a halt.

When someone shows you who they are, you should probably believe them.

MT15 said:

You may be correct - but we don’t know yet. And the fact that 48% of Rs prefer Trump to be the candidate in 2024 tells me that we‘re not out of the woods.

Yes, I remember the fear mongering for Obama. However, Obama didn’t actually try to stay in the WH once his term was up. We have a different situation now.

The Trumpist wing - a substantial portion of the R party by any measure - most certainly does want to be like Hungary. CPAC had their last meeting in Hungary so they can figure out how Orban got it done. Tucker Carlson fawns over Orban when he’s not fawning over Putin. They are moving away from democracy and toward an authoritarian state.

Read some Tom Nichols, or almost anyone at The Bulwark, if you want the conservative perspective on this subject.

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Instead of worrying needlessly about Trump....Democrats should focus on the Governor of Florida...

SteveSBrickNJ said:

Instead of worrying needlessly about Trump....Democrats should focus on the Governor of Florida...

Ron D

forums.wdwmagic.com

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Well, I already mentioned him in this very discussion. He’s not different than Trump. He’s got serious authoritarian tendencies - he wants to dictate how corporations do their internal training, how teachers speak in the classroom, and so on. His people are prone to saying things like - the Governor will NOT be criticized. So - that doesn’t help. He’s a full-on Trumpist. He would be delighted to be an Orban-like leader.

MT15 said:

Well, I already mentioned him in this very discussion. He’s not different than Trump. He’s got serious authoritarian tendencies - he wants to dictate how corporations do their internal training, how teachers speak in the classroom, and so on. His people are prone to saying things like - the Governor will NOT be criticized. So - that doesn’t help. He’s a full-on Trumpist. He would be delighted to be an Orban-like leader.

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I see.
I think for education, he wants to put things back to the way they were for centuries.
Teach Math, Science, English/Literature, and Social Studies /History, Spelling.
There are things that have entered the classroom recently that are not on that list.
I support sticking to the list and letting the parents/guardians of children present other topics as they personally see fit.
I'm gonna keep an eye on DeSantis. With an open mind I will gradually learn "here and there". I know I'll get a heavy dose of negative condemning info here so I need to find other sources.
Truly when I usually decide is during the Iowa, NH and southern primaries. I like to watch the candidate as they present themselves in "stump speeches" and in debates. That's far in the future still.
So don't expect me to say "I will vote for DeSantis". or "He's like Trump (so YOU folks say) and I won't vote for him".
I'm gonna WAIT and SEE for myself.

SteveSBrickNJ said:

They are moving closer.
Socialism and especially communism make people look to the government for their well being instead of studying hard...working hard....making a successful life on their own.
@Taurus

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Does use big words when you don’t know their meaning.

Btw, there has never been a communist country in the entire history of the world. What countries call themselves is irrelevant.

SteveSBrickNJ said:

Instead of worrying needlessly about Trump....Democrats should focus on the Governor of Florida...

Ron D

forums.wdwmagic.com

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True. He and Rick Scott are psychopaths.

SteveSBrickNJ said:

I see.
I think for education, he wants to put things back to the way they were for centuries.
Teach Math, Science, English/Literature, and Social Studies /History, Spelling.
There are things that have entered the classroom recently that are not on that list.
I support sticking to the list and letting the parents/guardians of children present other topics as they personally see fit.
I'm gonna keep an eye on DeSantis. With an open mind I will gradually learn "here and there". I know I'll get a heavy dose of negative condemning info here so I need to find other sources.
Truly when I usually decide is during the Iowa, NH and southern primaries. I like to watch the candidate as they present themselves in "stump speeches" and in debates. That's far in the future still.
So don't expect me to say "I will vote for DeSantis". or "He's like Trump (so YOU folks say) and I won't vote for him".
I'm gonna WAIT and SEE for myself.

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Sigh. Show me any school that does not teach what you want. Show me what “things have entered the classroom that are not on that list.”

Things taught for centuries? Blacks were inferior. Asians were sneaky. Mexicans were lazy. Jews were greedy and controlled the world. Oh, and they murdered God. Whites were superior. Natives were barbarians and savages.

Yes, DeathSantis is precisely the next iteration of Trump.

SteveSBrickNJ said:

Regarding your 2nd sentence. From THEIR point of view, they hypothetically would put in "America First" people....FOR THE GOOD of the country. You find that scary but they seem to find it to be hopeful. What you feel is good for the country and what they feel is good for the country are so polar opposite. Lol....I feel like a mediator

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Define “FOR THE GOOD of the country”.

bird said:

True. He and Rick Scott are psychopaths.

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HE is an Ivy Leaguer ( Yale and Harvard) . HE was awarded a Bronze Star. HE is running a state in which people are moving into more than people are moving out of. DeSantis is not a psychopath and YOU are correct if YOU perceive him to possibly be the GOP standard bearer in 2024. I am sure people here will do a lot of name calling. Some of you certainly excel at name calling.