Gov. Cuomo is going down (Update: NY AG investigation finds illegal acts; Cuomo resigns) (1 Viewer)

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    Farb said:
    Stating a fact doesn't make it gaslighting does it?

    Can you show me the R governors and mayors that called for long term lock down of schools and businesses in their states and cities? Someone is being intellectual dishonest and I hope it is on purpose.
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    You just changed what you are talking about, you realize that don’t you? You have been saying that it’s only D governors who have had problems early in the pandemic with nursing home deaths. That’s the topic here. (but you’re wrong about what you are saying in your goalpost moving in any case - Maryland, Indiana and Ohio just off the top of my head have had some pretty strict restrictions all along, and I’m sure there are more.)

    I called that (nursing home deaths only misreported by D governors) out the first time you said it, I told you that nursing home deaths were misreported in my R state as well, and said it wasn’t a party problem. (IMO, It happened not due to any political party affiliation, but because of the chaos and uncertainty in the beginning of the outbreak.) You have continued to say that it’s only D governors at least twice since then. That’s what I consider to be gaslighting.

    You have also been implying that somehow Ds are coordinating the sexual harassment scandal in NY to hide the fact that all these D governors were responsible for thousands of deaths in nursing homes. Which is just kinda crazy, actually. I hope you don’t sincerely believe that.
     
    MT15 said:
    You just changed what you are talking about, you realize that don’t you? You have been saying that it’s only D governors who have had problems early in the pandemic with nursing home deaths. That’s the topic here. (but you’re wrong about what you are saying in your goalpost moving in any case - Maryland, Indiana and Ohio just off the top of my head have had some pretty strict restrictions all along, and I’m sure there are more.)

    I called that (nursing home deaths only misreported by D governors) out the first time you said it, I told you that nursing home deaths were misreported in my R state as well, and said it wasn’t a party problem. (IMO, It happened not due to any political party affiliation, but because of the chaos and uncertainty in the beginning of the outbreak.) You have continued to say that it’s only D governors at least twice since then. That’s what I consider to be gaslighting.

    You have also been implying that somehow Ds are coordinating the sexual harassment scandal in NY to hide the fact that all these D governors were responsible for thousands of deaths in nursing homes. Which is just kinda crazy, actually. I hope you don’t sincerely believe that.
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    Meanwhile, DeSantis has been lying through his teeth about all the Covid deaths in Fla. Either that or he's been ignoring a flu epidemic of biblical proportions.
     
    @Farb
    Can you post a link to an article where it says which of the “majority of Dem Govs” put Covid positive people in nursing facilities? I haven’t read this and would like to familiarize myself with what my Governor may have done apparently.....

    And before I could complete this post we downshift the argument into “severe lockdowns” by governors..... so which are we discussing? Lockdowns or Nursing Homes? If it is the latter, please refer back to the first paragraph.
     
    Taurus said:
    Meanwhile, DeSantis has been lying through his teeth about all the Covid deaths in Fla. Either that or he's been ignoring a flu epidemic of biblical proportions.
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    A bit off-topic, but I can attest through personal experience that influenza is almost nonexistent this season. Both of our analyzer platforms that we use to test for COVID also simultaneously test for flu A and B. I cannot remember a single positive flu test when I’ve been there this whole flu season. Turns out that the measures taken to prevent COVID work better on the flu, which makes total sense since covid is more transmissible than flu. Was talking to a couple COVID doubters who said a lot of these deaths are probably flu “since they’re not even testing for flu anymore”. They were quite surprised to find out that we are indeed testing everyone with symptoms for both flu and COVID. I think it ruined their night, lol.
     
    CoolBrees said:
    @Farb
    And before I could complete this post we downshift the argument into “severe lockdowns” by governors..... so which are we discussing? Lockdowns or Nursing Homes? If it is the latter, please refer back to the first paragraph.
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    Neither. It's an ever shifting argument. Can't get a foothold on one? Shift to another. That one fell apart? Time for a new topic. shirt, that one got taken down too? Well what about the deficit?!
     
    Saintman2884 said:
    Bernie Sanders sort of disqualifies himself with his left-wing, bit misplaced rants or speeches in the past where he praised Castro's Cuba where at least in their daylong waits for bread and food rations, at least everyone in society, rich or poor, are waiting in line. Strange, asinine defense for praising lack of food and consumer goods in an one-party totalitarian communist dictatorship. He also praised late Hugo Chavez's ram-shackled running of Venezuela's once powerful, thriving oil/natural gas based economy to where the country's currency is equivalent to Zimbabwe and Venezuela has been caught up in an ongoing low-level civil war, violent civil unrest since 2014.

    He also hesitated or refused to criticize Chavez's successor, Nicholas Maduro, human rights record of intimidating, harassing political opponents, dissidents, silencing or threatening or even shutting down opposition newspapers, Internet blogs, websites, and forcing a mass, humanitarian catastrophe where hundreds of thousands of ordinary Venezuelans fled to nearby Columbia, Brazil, or further into Central America, "Northern Triangle" countries---Belize, Guatemala, and Nicaragua.
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    You should read the book on the Biden campaign called "Lucky". In the primary the entire DNC establishment was scared to death Bernie was going to win the nomination. It's an astonishing read when you see how far they went to make sure Bernie didn't win. You can label the man as man things but self-disqualifying in the primary race is not one of them.
     
    Farb said:
    https://www.politico.com/states/new...gators-says-he-spoke-of-his-hand-size-1368331

    It is as if I have seen this kind of left field claim about hand size before. Seems so odd.

    They are not even trying to hide it anymore. They want him to go away due to #metoo so hopefully his and all the other D governors wont be called to the mat for the killing of thousands of us citizens because of their 'lack of science' backed procedures. This is a media hit sting waged on behalf of the DNC.
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    9 out of the 10 worst states for COVID spread are run by Republicans.

    For deaths it's 50-50 in the 10 worst states... but the Democrat states had high death rates in the beginning and the Republican states had higher death rates in the last few months. That leads me to believe that strict lockdowns worked in both preventing the spread of COVID and deaths related to COVID (the "Democrat run states" had high death totals in April and May and then dropped dramatically as the lockdowns took effect). In Republican run states you had spikes in October through now in deaths -- which leads me to believe that loosening restrictions early resulted in more spread and more death.
     
    Last edited:
    On the good end of the spectrum 9 of the 10 best states for controlling the spread of COVID have Democratic governors.

    And 6 of the 10 best states for COVID deaths have Democratic governors.

    Of course it's not as a simple as saying Republican/Democrat.... there was a pretty wide range of policies implemented by each state. I would be curious to see an analysis of what policies were implemented by states with low COVID spread. I'd also like to look into why COVID deaths did not track with COVID spread in states.
     
    Thanks for looking all that up, Jim. My impression was that the states responses had more to do with competence than political party. My state had a decent response, IMO. We had a tiered shut down, we had a mask mandate and a tiered restriction on social gatherings. We have slowly eased up this year, and just opened up vaccines to everyone over 45. Our R governor was highly guided by the public health experts at our state’s largest medical school and didn’t listen to Trump at all. (full disclosure: this medical school is affiliated with the hospital system I just retired from and still go in to help out about once a week).

    I don’t agree with this governor‘s policies, for the most part, and didn’t vote for him, but he did a decent job with this pandemic. Trying to paint pandemic response as ruled by political party is going to be problematic.
     
    J-DONK said:
    You should read the book on the Biden campaign called "Lucky". In the primary the entire DNC establishment was scared to death Bernie was going to win the nomination. It's an astonishing read when you see how far they went to make sure Bernie didn't win. You can label the man as man things but self-disqualifying in the primary race is not one of them.
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    Oh, I think "self-disqualifying" is a term that needs to remain because if Bernie does ends up winning the DNC primaries last year, there's a very strong chance Trump gets re-elected and we're stuck with an emerging, dangerous would-be autocrat as President for another 4 years and that in of itself, is a far more frightening proposition thank God we won't have to face(hopefully) from Trump ever again. So, I think the DNC establishment was right to be concerned about preventing some fringe left-winger damaging their chances at winning with Biden in 2020.
     
    UncleTrvlingJim said:
    On the good end of the spectrum 9 of the 10 best states for controlling the spread of COVID have Democratic governors.

    And 6 of the 10 best states for COVID deaths have Democratic governors.

    Of course it's not as a simple as saying Republican/Democrat.... there was a pretty wide range of policies implemented by each state. I would be curious to see an analysis of what policies were implemented by states with low COVID spread. I'd also like to look into why COVID deaths did not track with COVID spread in states.
    Click to expand...

    Context is also important. Covid's initial outbreak was in a few cities (brought there by international travel), and New York was obviously the worst. Covid outcomes were worse at the beginning because the medical knowledge base for successful treatment wasn't there yet. And high-risk people (e.g. nursing homes) fared particularly poorly.

    Comparing Covid impact on nursing homes in New York (with concentrated outbreak from March to June (2020)) with Covid impact on nursing homes in Dallas (where the outbreak began in earnest months later) is not purely about administrative policy and state politics. The doctors weren't using the same tools.
     
    Farb said:
    Stating a fact doesn't make it gaslighting does it?

    Can you show me the R governors and mayors that called for long term lock down of schools and businesses in their states and cities? Someone is being intellectual dishonest and I hope it is on purpose.
    Click to expand...

    Wait, are you trying to say that " for the killing of thousands of us citizens because of their 'lack of science' backed procedures. " meant "long term lock downs".

    Who died from shelter in place, lock downs, partial lock downs? Very confused about the point you were making.

    Here is every state that issued some sort of lock down or stay at home order. Almost all of the states did.

    ballotpedia.org

    States that issued lockdown and stay-at-home orders in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, 2020

    Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics
    ballotpedia.org ballotpedia.org

    Here are start and end dates (X-axis is days, but they don't show the scale intervals), but they have the start and stop dates listed to the side.

    Republican controlled (gov and legislatures), were shorter than the rest, but aren't that far off of divided states, or most democract controlled states. Only really two major outliers.. California and New Mexico.

    This doesn't address mask mandates, or county specific rules in place.

    1615998284878.png
     
    www.beckershospitalreview.com

    States ranked by COVID-19 death rates

    As of October 29, more than 743,000 people in the U.S. had died after contracting COVID-19, according to The New York Times.
    www.beckershospitalreview.com www.beckershospitalreview.com

    And this is the per capital death's per state.

    NY and NJ top the list, since that's where it mostly came in from to start. So they were hit early.

    Notice who else is in the top 5? Here's the top 10, deaths per 100k residents.


    New Jersey: 270
    Population: 8.9 million residents

    New York: 250
    Population: 19.4 million

    Rhode Island: 244
    Population: 1.1 million

    Massachusetts: 242
    Population: 6.9 million

    Mississippi: 233
    Population: 3 million

    Arizona: 228
    Population: 7.3 million

    Connecticut: 219
    Population: 3.6 million

    Louisiana: 213
    Population: 4.6 million

    South Dakota: 216
    Population: 884,659

    Alabama: 211
    Population: 4.9 million
     
    Unfortunately, the NE got hit hard first when there was no treatment, no supplies, no nothing. Arizona was bad because it was horrible on the Native American population. Much like I’m sure Louisiana and Alabama, 2 states which don’t rank high on health index. Unfortunately SD has no one to blame but the hapless mismanagement by their idiot governor.
     
    UncleTrvlingJim said:
    9 out of the 10 worst states for COVID spread are run by Republicans.

    For deaths it's 50-50 in the 10 worst states... but the Democrat states had high death rates in the beginning and the Republican states had higher death rates in the last few months. That leads me to believe that strict lockdowns worked in both preventing the spread of COVID and deaths related to COVID (the "Democrat run states" had high death totals in April and May and then dropped dramatically as the lockdowns took effect). In Republican run states you had spikes in October through now in deaths -- which leads me to believe that loosening restrictions early resulted in more spread and more death.
    Click to expand...
     
    SaintForLife said:
    Click to expand...


    The CDC doesn't believe Florida's official covid death rate. I don't know why anyone would tout it in an comparison. Florida is also the state with the most advantageous weather for no lockdown with year round outdoor dining, and activities.
     
    J-DONK said:
    The CDC doesn't believe Florida's official covid death rate. I don't know why anyone would tout it in an comparison. Florida is also the state with the most advantageous weather for no lockdown with year round outdoor dining, and activities.
    Click to expand...
    You left out the part about Florida having a substantial older population which should have led to even more deaths. Can you post the CDC not believing Florida's death rate?
     

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