Impeachment Round Two (14 Viewers)

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    Yggdrasill

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    I am in the camp that Trump must -not should- be impeached. If not this President, for this behavior, then what bar would have to be cleared to merit impeachment?

    Impeachment not only sends a signal to the country and the world that fomenting a coup is unacceptable and will be punished, but it also removes much of the threat Trump could pose going forward as, I understand it, he would lose his pension, his access to daily security briefings, free medical care and other amenities and benefits afforded to former Presidents. If impeached, he would not meet the definition of a Former President under the Former Presidents Act. I don't think it is clear whether he would continue to receive Secret Service protection.
     
    The most interesting thing I found in that rabbit hole is that the disqualification question is a separate issue, and only requires a simple majority.
     
    20210114_181851.jpg
     
    FullMonte said:
    If Trump is convicted, it will raise an interesting legal issue.

    The law (Former Presidents Act) specifies that a former president receives a pension, and how the amount is calculated. It clarifies that a "former president" is a person (among other things) "whose service in such office shall have terminated other than removal pursuant to section 4 of article II of the Constitution of the United States of America..."

    So, here is the question. Trump's term ends at noon on Jan 20. If he is convicted after that point, and congress votes to remove him from office.....Which is true? His term ended at Jan 20, or he was removed by congress?
    Click to expand...
    Even if convicted, by the Former Presidents Act, Trump will still be a "former president", however per the constitution, there are other consequences.

    Article 1, Section 3: " Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law. "

    So the consequences of a conviction are:
    1) Removal from office, which would be moot for Trump, since he'll already be out of office.
    2) Disqualified to hold office and trust again. This is the key reason to convict.
    3) Profit from the U.S., so no pension, and no travel expenses. I think it also eliminates secret service protection. This should be trivial, since supposedly Trump is a billionaire.

    I've heard that the disqualification for office will require another vote, but can pass with a simple majority, so perhaps all of these consequences will require separate votes after the conviction.
     
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    Lapaz said:
    Even if convicted, by the Former Presidents Act, Trump will still be a "former president", however per the constitution, there are other consequences.
    Click to expand...

    But that's the question. Will he be? Section (f) says "the term 'former President' means a person --
    (2) whose service in such office shall have terminated other than by removal pursuant to section 4 of article II of the Constitution of the United States of America..."

    So, a president who is removed by impeachment is not, according to the Former President's Act, a "former president." The question I have is, since the removal happened after the end of his term, which of the two would apply here.

    "3) Profit from the U.S., so no pension, and no travel expenses. I think it also eliminates secret service protection. This should be trivial, since supposedly Trump is a billionaire. "

    From what I've heard, there was an amendment to the law in 2013 (I think it was) that clarified that a president who was impeached and removed would still get secret service protection.
     
    Wyoming Republicans has voted to censure Sen Cheney for, literally, putting her country over the party.

    www.foxnews.com

    Wyoming Republicans censure Cheney over Trump impeachment vote

    Wyoming's Carbon County Republican Party voted unanimously to censure Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo., for voting with nine other House Republicans to impeach President Trump on charges of "incitement of an insurrection."
    www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

    "Representative Cheney has violated the trust of her voters, failed to faithfully represent a very large majority of motivated Wyoming voters, and neglected her duty to represent the party and the will of the people who elected her to represent them," the resolution states.
    Click to expand...
     
    (with rhetoric like this I don't see enough republicans getting on board, even if what happened with the insurrection was abhorrent)


    Senator Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.) on Wednesday warned fellow Republicans that if they try to “erase Donald Trump from the party, you’re going to get erased.”

    “I hope people in our party understand the party itself,” he told Fox News hours after President Joe Biden was sworn-in.

    “Most Republicans like his policies. A lot of Republicans like his style,” Graham said. “A lot of people are disappointed with him personally at times but appreciate the outcomes he’s achieved for our country.”


    Asked if he thinks Trump will try to start another political party — according to the Wall Street Journal, the former president is toying with the idea of forming a “Patriot Party” — Graham said he hoped Trump does not, adding that he would like to see him “stay the leader of the Republican Party.”
     
    zztop said:
    (with rhetoric like this I don't see enough republicans getting on board, even if what happened with the insurrection was abhorrent)


    Senator Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.) on Wednesday warned fellow Republicans that if they try to “erase Donald Trump from the party, you’re going to get erased.”

    “I hope people in our party understand the party itself,” he told Fox News hours after President Joe Biden was sworn-in.

    “Most Republicans like his policies. A lot of Republicans like his style,” Graham said. “A lot of people are disappointed with him personally at times but appreciate the outcomes he’s achieved for our country.”


    Asked if he thinks Trump will try to start another political party — according to the Wall Street Journal, the former president is toying with the idea of forming a “Patriot Party” — Graham said he hoped Trump does not, adding that he would like to see him “stay the leader of the Republican Party.”
    Click to expand...
    Patriot or [arse]? *

    Don't worry, Lindsey. It's rather clear.

    *Lol, not 'arse'.. [what Trump said to Pence]
     
    Last edited:
    zztop said:
    (with rhetoric like this I don't see enough republicans getting on board, even if what happened with the insurrection was abhorrent)


    Senator Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.) on Wednesday warned fellow Republicans that if they try to “erase Donald Trump from the party, you’re going to get erased.”

    “I hope people in our party understand the party itself,” he told Fox News hours after President Joe Biden was sworn-in.

    “Most Republicans like his policies. A lot of Republicans like his style,” Graham said. “A lot of people are disappointed with him personally at times but appreciate the outcomes he’s achieved for our country.”


    Asked if he thinks Trump will try to start another political party — according to the Wall Street Journal, the former president is toying with the idea of forming a “Patriot Party” — Graham said he hoped Trump does not, adding that he would like to see him “stay the leader of the Republican Party.”
    Click to expand...

    I give Lindsey Graham credit for one thing. His lack of a spine must make it incredibly difficult to walk into the Senate and continuously vote the way a fascist would-be dictator demands, yet he manages.
     
    zztop said:
    (with rhetoric like this I don't see enough republicans getting on board, even if what happened with the insurrection was abhorrent)


    Senator Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.) on Wednesday warned fellow Republicans that if they try to “erase Donald Trump from the party, you’re going to get erased.”

    “I hope people in our party understand the party itself,” he told Fox News hours after President Joe Biden was sworn-in.

    “Most Republicans like his policies. A lot of Republicans like his style,” Graham said. “A lot of people are disappointed with him personally at times but appreciate the outcomes he’s achieved for our country.”


    Asked if he thinks Trump will try to start another political party — according to the Wall Street Journal, the former president is toying with the idea of forming a “Patriot Party” — Graham said he hoped Trump does not, adding that he would like to see him “stay the leader of the Republican Party.”
    Click to expand...

    His feigned moral outrage after the Capitol attack was clearly feigned. How quickly people forget. Graham has zero integrity. I just can't take anything he says seriously.
     
    DaveXA said:
    His feigned moral outrage after the Capitol attack was clearly feigned. How quickly people forget. Graham has zero integrity. I just can't take anything he says seriously.
    Click to expand...

    he hopped on that plane with Trump like the day after. Who knows what was said on there, but when he got out he was pivoting away from his earlier words. Here's another guy
    www.politico.com

    Trump did not provoke Capitol riots, McCarthy says

    "I don't believe he provoked it if you listen to what he said at the rally," House GOP Leader Kevin McCarthy told reporters on Thursday.
    www.politico.com www.politico.com
     

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