The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (19 Viewers)

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    Lapaz

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    There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.



    Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

    Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.
     
    At least that will give me 4 more years to figure out the details of my relocation to a country that *doesnt* have a strong-armed dictator like Trump in charge.





    ETA Dave XA beat me to it

    Lol, yep. I'll probably consider either Canada or South Korea (wife is Korean). My youngest graduates from HS in 2 years, so that might work out nicely. We'll see.
     
    Add this to the list of things that need to be codified and not subject to respect for norms and tradition.

    Over the last 4 years, we've learned that we can't have a government that relies on the Chief Executive respecting traditions and norms. Now we are finding out if our elections can withstand a party that doesn't respect the norms that govern it.

    I think the jury is still out on if our Democracy will survive it, but I think it's already clear that changes need to be made. A government that relies on traditions and norms can't survive when 50% of the population doesn't respect them.




    It’s like my boy Bill Maher said on his show a couple weeks ago- with Trump you need to write everything down, what you can and cant do- and even then he’ll still try to do it... He called Trump the ‘Gus’ of America, like in the old movie where a football team signs a place-kicking mule , Gus, to kick field goals and when the other teams cry foul, they say ‘Well it’s not in the rule book that you CANT have a mule kicking field goals’.... There are certain rules that no one ever thought you had to write down, just like with Trump.
     
    I guess JE or superchuck500 can answer... Would that be coercion or duress?

    No. Coercion or duress requires an express threat or one that is clearly situationally implied. It can't be sort of amorphous ideas of "well, he's powerful so I had to do it." If Trump didn't make or imply some kind of direct threat, it isn't going to be coercion or duress.
     


    Is the court in session regarding this case today, or is this just a filing?

    Edit: Are there any legal moves we should be aware of today? Iirc, the plaintiffs in the case Rudy was arguing yesterday have to submit their arguments against motion to dismiss today. Is there a session or will the judge be making a decision after pliantiffs and defense submits their written arguments for/vs dismissing the case?
     
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    So the president of the US calls a local Canvassing board member and put pressure on her to recind her vote????

    That is so wrong in so many ways....
     
    Is the court in session regarding this case today, or is this just a filing?

    Edit: Are there any legal moves we should be aware of today? Iirc, the plaintiffs in the case Rudy was arguing yesterday have to submit their arguments against motion to dismiss today. Is there a session or will the judge be making a decision after pliantiffs and defense submits their written arguments for/vs dismissing the case?

    That filing is in the Michigan case. Rudy's work was in the PA case. I doubt there will be additional hearing but I really don't know.
     
    I only saw a letter from the woman. Did the man also attempt to rescind his vote? They should both resign immediately, imo. I think the woman already has ethics charges pending, but I just read that in passing and didn’t really read it closely.
     
    That filing is in the Michigan case. Rudy's work was in the PA case. I doubt there will be additional hearing but I really don't know.

    Yeah, the first line was referring to the Michigan case. The edited part more for the broader context of any remaining cases in the works in addition to the PA case. Was just wondering if there was anything we can follow along sort of like what we did the other day with the PA case.
     
    Here's the (parody) transcript from Sarah Cooper's impersonation of a Trump attorney from the other day. ICYMI, she didn't lip synch it but the majority of the internet thought she did and that it was real too. (I'm not going to pretend like I wasn't fooled for a second.

    sara cooper trump lawyer.jpg
     
    No. Coercion or duress requires an express threat or one that is clearly situationally implied. It can't be sort of amorphous ideas of "well, he's powerful so I had to do it." If Trump didn't make or imply some kind of direct threat, it isn't going to be coercion or duress.

    what about election tampering? I’ve seen that mentioned, a felony maybe?
     
    what about election tampering? I’ve seen that mentioned, a felony maybe?

    I would think that has the same issues as coercion. You'd need to prove that Trump made or implied a threat of some consequence to call it tampering. But I'm not a lawyer, so...take it for what it's worth. :hihi:
     
    I'm calling it now. There will be an effort by one of these mid-western states by the Republican legislature to overturn the vote of the people and appoint Republican electors. Wisconsin and Michigan are prime candidates given the aggressiveness and shamelessness of their Republican representatives in the state legislature.

    I'm still not sure it will lead to a coup, I think in the end enough people in places of power will stand up to stop it, but it's going to get uglier. And it is definitely going to further destabilize our country and government and really damage Biden's presidency due to all of the delays in starting the transition and all of the resulting vitriol.

    It is very clear that many, many Republcicans will not accept the vote of the people they represent. They don't care what the actual result of the election is or the harm done to the country. They will do anything to seize power and make it so that Trump will retain power.
     
    what about election tampering? I’ve seen that mentioned, a felony maybe?

    I would think that has the same issues as coercion. You'd need to prove that Trump made or implied a threat of some consequence to call it tampering. But I'm not a lawyer, so...take it for what it's worth. :hihi:

    She did change her mind after talking to him so he must have said something that changed her mind - and that at least here would definitely be considered tampering and a felony.
     
    I'm calling it now. There will be an effort by one of these mid-western states by the Republican legislature to overturn the vote of the people and appoint Republican electors. Wisconsin and Michigan are prime candidates given the aggressiveness and shamelessness of their Republican representatives in the state legislature.

    I'm still not sure it will lead to a coup, I think in the end enough people in places of power will stand up to stop it, but it's going to get uglier. And it is definitely going to further destabilize our country and government and really damage Biden's presidency due to all of the delays in starting the transition and all of the resulting vitriol.

    It is very clear that many, many Republcicans will not accept the vote of the people they represent. They don't care what the actual result of the election is or the harm done to the country. They will do anything to seize power and make it so that Trump will retain power.


    I think you miss an important point which Trump has expressed several times. They local GOP representatives don't see themselves as representatives for their communities, but only as representatives for those who elected them.
     

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