QAnon (8 Viewers)

DaveXA said:

Well, I'm not ready to start redefining free speech. Do we really want to start policing people's thinking? That's a far more murky issue than I'm willing to go. I mean, where does that line get drawn?

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It gets drawn wherever we decide it should be drawn.

Qanon is not a political belief. It is a lie that is told as an objective fact.

If I started telling people DaveXa likes to have sex with children, i would get sued for slander. If someone i said that to tried to murder you, i would go to prison.

How are the people pushing Qanon any different than Charles Manson?

DaveXA said:

Well, I'm not ready to start redefining free speech. Do we really want to start policing people's thinking? That's a far more murky issue than I'm willing to go. I mean, where does that line get drawn?

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That's a conversation my wife and I have had with our older son (who turned 17 today). He asks how people can be allowed to lie and spread clearly false information, and why isn't there a law to stop that. And then we have to remind him, "who get's to determine what's true and what's false?"

samiam5211 said:

It gets drawn wherever we decide it should be drawn.

Qanon is not a political belief. It is a lie that is told as an objective fact.

If I started telling people DaveXa likes to have sex with children, i would get sued for slander. If someone i said that to tried to murder you, i would go to prison.

How are the people pushing Qanon any different than Charles Manson?

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The difference is Manson actually pulled the proverbial trigger. People who are adults have to make judgement decisions about what they read, use critical thinking and learn to filter out falsehoods. Propaganda has been around forever. That's hardly new. What QAnon is doing isn't some new, novel concept. Is it damaging? Yeah. Unethical? Yeah. Illegal? No. Should it be? Maybe, but I don't see the law being changed to remedy that. There already are limitations to free speech. But I'm not sure what QAnon is peddling falls under those limitations.

I get the desire to curb it. But practically speaking, I don't see how you do it without changing the meaning of the first amendment.

In my opinion, and I am sure this will not be met with a rational reaction, QAnon is on par with BLM and Antifa as far as spreading false and actual disinformation.

A movement that says things or uses word play in order to draw a emotional response regardless if it is based in reality or not. They rely on the emotional response so as to cloud the real intentions of the group. It also doesn't help reality, when definitions of words are changed, without discussion, within 24 hours.

Examples that come to mind without much thought:

Antifa- They fight fascists, the name says it. Don Lemon even explained this for everyone. In reality, they are just anarchist and socialist. It uses the name and word play to imply if you are against them, you are essentially a nazi, there by silencing any and all critics.

BLM- Rogue cops hunting black people in the streets. Defund the Police train wreck that is still unfolding. Turns out "defund' really meant 'reimagine'? The reality is this group is not an organization looking out for black Americans. If it was, it would not have started the 'defund the police' gimmick that has a measurable negative impact on the black communities. In reality, they are a Marxist group that uses word play and misinformation in order to get the response needed to silence anyone who disagrees with them. (and make a lot of money).

I get the 'other sides' crazy people look scarier than your tribe's crazy people but in the end, they are all just crazy people. The fact that non-crazy people are having discussion about curtailing our freedom of speech because crazy people now have a platform (social media) is terrifying to me and should be called out on all sides.

samiam5211 said:

It gets drawn wherever we decide it should be drawn.

Qanon is not a political belief. It is a lie that is told as an objective fact.

If I started telling people DaveXa likes to have sex with children, i would get sued for slander. If someone i said that to tried to murder you, i would go to prison.

How are the people pushing Qanon any different than Charles Manson?

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Who is 'we'?

Farb said:

In my opinion, and I am sure this will not be met with a rational reaction, QAnon is on par with BLM and Antifa as far as spreading false and actual disinformation.

A movement that says things or uses word play in order to draw a emotional response regardless if it is based in reality or not. They rely on the emotional response so as to cloud the real intentions of the group. It also doesn't help reality, when definitions of words are changed, without discussion, within 24 hours.

Examples that come to mind without much thought:

Antifa- They fight fascists, the name says it. Don Lemon even explained this for everyone. In reality, they are just anarchist and socialist. It uses the name and word play to imply if you are against them, you are essentially a nazi, there by silencing any and all critics.

BLM- Rogue cops hunting black people in the streets. Defund the Police train wreck that is still unfolding. Turns out "defund' really meant 'reimagine'? The reality is this group is not an organization looking out for black Americans. If it was, it would not have started the 'defund the police' gimmick that has a measurable negative impact on the black communities. In reality, they are a Marxist group that uses word play and misinformation in order to get the response needed to silence anyone who disagrees with them. (and make a lot of money).

I get the 'other sides' crazy people look scarier than your tribe's crazy people but in the end, they are all just crazy people. The fact that non-crazy people are having discussion about curtailing our freedom of speech because crazy people now have a platform (social media) is terrifying to me and should be called out on all sides.

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Maybe elaborate more about why you think BLM is maxist ? I know what maxism is and BLM is nothing at all like that so what part of BLM do you think fit the description of maxism?

DaveXA said:

The difference is Manson actually pulled the proverbial trigger. People who are adults have to make judgement decisions about what they read, use critical thinking and learn to filter out falsehoods. Propaganda has been around forever. That's hardly new. What QAnon is doing isn't some new, novel concept. Is it damaging? Yeah. Unethical? Yeah. Illegal? No. Should it be? Maybe, but I don't see the law being changed to remedy that. There already are limitations to free speech. But I'm not sure what QAnon is peddling falls under those limitations.

I get the desire to curb it. But practically speaking, I don't see how you do it without changing the meaning of the first amendment.

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There are things that I think we should outlaw. Namely the KKK, Nazi's, Skinheads and other fascist groups that preach white supremacy. What they engage in isn't free speech. It's hate speech meant to insight violence. We have enough history with those elements of our society and nothing productive and good comes out of them. We shouldn't legally allow groups like that to gather, protest or unite in any way. It is corrosive and destructive to our society.

Farb said:

In my opinion, and I am sure this will not be met with a rational reaction, QAnon is on par with BLM and Antifa as far as spreading false and actual disinformation.

A movement that says things or uses word play in order to draw a emotional response regardless if it is based in reality or not. They rely on the emotional response so as to cloud the real intentions of the group. It also doesn't help reality, when definitions of words are changed, without discussion, within 24 hours.

Examples that come to mind without much thought:

Antifa- They fight fascists, the name says it. Don Lemon even explained this for everyone. In reality, they are just anarchist and socialist. It uses the name and word play to imply if you are against them, you are essentially a nazi, there by silencing any and all critics.

BLM- Rogue cops hunting black people in the streets. Defund the Police train wreck that is still unfolding. Turns out "defund' really meant 'reimagine'? The reality is this group is not an organization looking out for black Americans. If it was, it would not have started the 'defund the police' gimmick that has a measurable negative impact on the black communities. In reality, they are a Marxist group that uses word play and misinformation in order to get the response needed to silence anyone who disagrees with them. (and make a lot of money).

I get the 'other sides' crazy people look scarier than your tribe's crazy people but in the end, they are all just crazy people. The fact that non-crazy people are having discussion about curtailing our freedom of speech because crazy people now have a platform (social media) is terrifying to me and should be called out on all sides.

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I find it interesting that you biggest gripe of the three is with BLM. BLM is not like Antifa or QAnon. They are not anonymous. And even though you will never acknowledge it, they have many legitimate reasons for their activism and protest, hate it as you will.

I don't really keep up with Antifa enough to know, but I doubt their spreading of false and actual disinformation is anything like QAnon. That is all that QAnon does.

coldseat said:

There are things that I think we should outlaw. Namely the KKK, Nazi's, Skinheads and other fascist groups that preach white supremacy. What they engage in isn't free speech. It's hate speech meant to insight violence. We have enough history with those elements of our society and nothing productive and good comes out of them. We shouldn't legally allow groups like that to gather, protest or unite in any way. It is corrosive and destructive to our society.

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I hear that, and get it. But until the rules are changed, it is what it is.

So systemic police abuse of Black men and Women equals a international cabal of rich people and liberals that kidnap children and drink their blood as part of their pedophile rituals? That the “president” was in secret league with Mueller to thwart this cabal and they would soon be rounding up these individuals- including Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and the President- elect for public trials and executions at Guantanamo. That was started on 4chan.

Yeah I am going to have to disagree with you there.

Farb said:

In my opinion, and I am sure this will not be met with a rational reaction, QAnon is on par with BLM and Antifa...

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Not sure why I didn't stop reading at this point.

DaveXA said:

Not sure why I didn't stop reading at this point.

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I did.

DaveXA said:

Well, I'm not ready to start redefining free speech. Do we really want to start policing people's thinking? That's a far more murky issue than I'm willing to go. I mean, where does that line get drawn?

Click to expand...

You’re essentially protecting someone’s right to be the victim of a scam artist.

It’s like saying “I don’t want to take away someone’s right to be murdered if that’s what they want to be.”

Farb said:

In my opinion, and I am sure this will not be met with a rational reaction, QAnon is on par with BLM and Antifa as far as spreading false and actual disinformation.

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And that’s as far as I got.

Farb said:

Who is 'we'?

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Us

DaveXA said:

The difference is Manson actually pulled the proverbial trigger.

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No, he didn't. His family members did based on the lies he fed them. Sound familiar?

brandon said:

You’re essentially protecting someone’s right to be the victim of a scam artist.

It’s like saying “I don’t want to take away someone’s right to be murdered if that’s what they want to be.”


And that’s as far as I got.

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I'm not protecting them. Never said that. I'm saying that until the law is changed, it is what it is.

LA - L.A. said:

No, he didn't. His family members did based on the lies he fed them. Sound familiar?

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So what do you propose we do? It's not like we can literally stop them from talking. People speak, they write books, they find a way to speak their minds. Short of killing them, what do you propose?

Farb said:

In reality, they are just anarchist and socialist.

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It is literally impossible to be both of these things.

Farb said:

Turns out "defund' really meant 'reimagine'?

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It always meant stop giving them ridiculous amounts of money that they spend on military ordnance and training that encourages violence over de-escalation.

Farb said:

In reality, they are a Marxist group

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