All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (18 Viewers)

SaintForLife said:

I think Bel Edwards has done a good job. Trump downplayed the virus initially and never had a clear message. Cuomo made one of the worst decisions so far by making nursing homes take known Covid patients while preventing the nursing homes from testing for Covid on admission.

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Trump is still downplaying it now at a time where we're seeing a surge of cases and hospitalizations in the summer when this was supposed to slow down.

He will be forced into looking like he's taking it more serious again, and I just can't imagine the back and forth is going to play particularly well for him.

Btw, entirely agree on the nursing home decision by Cuomo.

I think we can criticize Cuomo for his decisions on nursing home admissions, but we need to remember the actual context of the situation. He was truly between a rock and a hard place. He had a huge crisis of bed availability in the hospitals, and a need to make room for the incoming infected patients. He also had limited testing capability. The federal government was either doing nothing or actually impeding his efforts in a horrible public health crisis.

I don’t think he did it because he’s an evil liberal, which is why some people on the right are flogging this particular horse so hard. They hope to distract from the horrible federal examples.

In hindsight he made a mistake, and it wasn’t his only one. But taken as a whole his leadership is just staggeringly better than Trump’s. It’s not even close.

Trump has made nothing but poor decisions, from day one, and he continues to make the same poor decisions even today, when he should know better.

Brandon13 said:

Trump is still downplaying it now at a time where we're seeing a surge of cases and hospitalizations in the summer when this was supposed to slow down.

He will be forced into looking like he's taking it more serious again, and I just can't imagine the back and forth is going to play particularly well for him.

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He just cut funding to the NIH. That's on top of stopping testing where cases are skyrocketing.

Also, came across this graphic on twitter but couldn't find the source tweet from the NYT.


While searching for it I did find this graphic about Mardi Gras and the spread it caused.



ETA: Check out the NYT thread on twitter. It's got a lot of graphics showing spread, and movement of people over certain time periods.

So the Trump admin actually sent out $1.4 BILLION in stimulus payments to dead people. Reported by the GAO (Government Accountability Office).

Maybe that's why they're so convinced voting by mail would create fraud? Because they're too stupid to figure out who's dead or alive they figure every county/parish registrar of voters and SOS must be just as dumb.

MT15 said:

I think we can criticize Cuomo for his decisions on nursing home admissions, but we need to remember the actual context of the situation. He was truly between a rock and a hard place. He had a huge crisis of bed availability in the hospitals, and a need to make room for the incoming infected patients. He also had limited testing capability. The federal government was either doing nothing or actually impeding his efforts in a horrible public health crisis.

I don’t think he did it because he’s an evil liberal, which is why some people on the right are flogging this particular horse so hard. They hope to distract from the horrible federal examples.

In hindsight he made a mistake, and it wasn’t his only one. But taken as a whole his leadership is just staggeringly better than Trump’s. It’s not even close.

Trump has made nothing but poor decisions, from day one, and he continues to make the same poor decisions even today, when he should know better.

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You seem to be bending over backwards to give Cuomo the benefit of the doubt while your criticism that Trump is responsible for most of the covid deaths. You can criticize both Cuomo and Trump.

The accusation of people calling him an evil liberal is a strawman and is also ironic because most people on the left think Trump is evil. People talking about Cuomo's horrible nursing home policy isn't done to distract from the Federal problems. Thats a Democratic talking point.

45 out of 50 Governors didn't force COVID infected patients into nursing homes. But 5 Govenors did: Cuomo (NY), Wolf (PA), Whitmer (MI), Murphy (NJ),Newsom (CA).

Almost half of all COVID nursing home deaths were in those states.




New York - 161 Deaths Per 100,000
Florida -15 Deaths Per 100,000

SaintForLife said:

You seem to be bending over backwards to give Cuomo the benefit of the doubt while your criticism that Trump is responsible for most of the covid deaths. You can criticize both Cuomo and Trump.

The accusation of people calling him an evil liberal is a strawman and is also ironic because most people on the left think Trump is evil. People talking about Cuomo's horrible nursing home policy isn't done to distract from the Federal problems. Thats a Democratic talking point.

45 out of 50 Governors didn't force COVID infected patients into nursing homes. But 5 Govenors did: Cuomo (NY), Wolf (PA), Whitmer (MI), Murphy (NJ),Newsom (CA).

Almost half of all COVID nursing home deaths were in those states.

Cuomo's nursing home guidance was not fully in line with CDC

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, facing criticism for how the state handled COVID-19 in nursing homes, has said his administr

www.politifact.com

New York - 161 Deaths Per 100,000
Florida -15 Deaths Per 100,000

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So maybe reading again you will see I said it was a mistake and he can be criticized for it. And yes, most of the nursing home deaths would be in the states that had most of the cases. I don’t think that proves what you think it does. I was trying to add a little context.

Honestly, I don’t think you are reading what I am saying with a clear eye. You seem to be reading just to grab a gotcha. It’s similar to our go round about your false statement that if you don’t practice social distancing, wearing a mask is negated. That is simply not something that has been postulated at this point in time.

And it’s kinda humorous that you accuse me of putting up a straw man in the same post that you actually put up the straw man that I said Trump should be blamed for all Covid deaths. Never have I said that.

Yes, absolutely both Trump and Cuomo can be criticized. But only one of them is actually making an effort to work on the pandemic. And that’s just objective truth.

MT15 said:

So maybe reading again you will see I said it was a mistake and he can be criticized for it. And yes, most of the nursing home deaths would be in the states that had most of the cases. I don’t think that proves what you think it does. I was trying to add a little context.

Honestly, I don’t think you are reading what I am saying with a clear eye. You seem to be reading just to grab a gotcha. It’s similar to our go round about your false statement that if you don’t practice social distancing, wearing a mask is negated. That is simply not something that has been postulated at this point in time.

And it’s kinda humorous that you accuse me of putting up a straw man in the same post that you actually put up the straw man that I said Trump should be blamed for all Covid deaths. Never have I said that.

Yes, absolutely both Trump and Cuomo can be criticized. But only one of them is actually making an effort to work on the pandemic. And that’s just objective truth.

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It's not about a gotcha. Cuomo had arguably one of the worst decisions that directly ended up causing many deaths. I don't fault him for every death like the media and many Democrats do with Trump.

I haven't done much if any defending of Trump's handling of Covid. The one thing I did say that its disgusting to see many in the media and on the left basically say that he's responsible for every death or the vast majority.

I said that your criticism that Trump was responsible for most of the covid deaths. I didn't say you said all covid deaths. I was talking about the overall theme of your posts that if only if Trump would have done this or that then the Covid situation wouldn't be so bad.

If my assumption is incorrect, how much of the covid deaths and positive cases do you think Trump is responsible for? What should Trump have done differently how would that have made a difference compared to our current situation?

Quit telling me you know what I really mean, and just deal with what I actually say. Let’s try that for a while and see if it helps out.

And I’m not taking your bait.

SaintForLife said:

You seem to be bending over backwards to give Cuomo the benefit of the doubt while your criticism that Trump is responsible for most of the covid deaths. You can criticize both Cuomo and Trump.

The accusation of people calling him an evil liberal is a strawman and is also ironic because most people on the left think Trump is evil. People talking about Cuomo's horrible nursing home policy isn't done to distract from the Federal problems. Thats a Democratic talking point.

45 out of 50 Governors didn't force COVID infected patients into nursing homes. But 5 Govenors did: Cuomo (NY), Wolf (PA), Whitmer (MI), Murphy (NJ),Newsom (CA).

Almost half of all COVID nursing home deaths were in those states.

Cuomo's nursing home guidance was not fully in line with CDC

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, facing criticism for how the state handled COVID-19 in nursing homes, has said his administr

www.politifact.com

New York - 161 Deaths Per 100,000
Florida -15 Deaths Per 100,000

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Just how many times do we need to bring up the 4k extra deaths from pneumonia deaths in the state of Florida?

They have reported 4k more than they ever have. Those are fudged numbers point blank.

If you bring up Florida and don't bring up that bull move to make numbers look better you will never have a leg to stand on.

You can compare apples to oranges if you want. New York had this early when testing ball was dropped by this administration royally.

The timing of what New York and new Orleans had more to do with the number of deaths that they had than anything else.

You are more than welcome to post Florida and their cruddy fudged numbers but expect someone to point it out every time.

SaintForLife said:

It's not about a gotcha. Cuomo had arguably one of the worst decisions that directly ended up causing many deaths. I don't fault him for every death like the media and many Democrats do with Trump.

I haven't done much if any defending of Trump's handling of Covid. The one thing I did say that its disgusting to see many in the media and on the left basically say that he's responsible for every death or the vast majority.

I said that your criticism that Trump was responsible for most of the covid deaths. I didn't say you said all covid deaths. I was talking about the overall theme of your posts that if only if Trump would have done this or that then the Covid situation wouldn't be so bad.

If my assumption is incorrect, how much of the covid deaths and positive cases do you think Trump is responsible for? What should Trump have done differently how would that have made a difference compared to our current situation?

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So now "Commander in Chief" or POTUS is relegated to what job duties exactly?

If a POTUS takes a country to war, ultimately, the deaths of soldiers are considered to be at his feet. Because its his course of action that led us to war. Or a decision by a CEO that leads to injury/death of employees based on a course of action he/she decided to take.

Here we have the same issue....course of action ( or inaction in this case )

Im not going to bore you with the repeated soundbites from Jan/Feb/early March as you have seen and heard them. Ill just remind you that it was Trump who consistently downplayed the virus all the way to the point that it began to spread uncontrollably ( shoot, even said we only have 15 cases, that will go to 7 or 8 then zero )

Again, leadership starts at the very top. Always has. One thing i learned in the US Army is that to be a leader, you have to, absolutely have to lead by example. Your platoon mates will follow your lead if you have shown them you are willing to do what you ask of them.

There hasnt been one scintilla of leadership out of Trump. He isnt a leader. I know you know this. Everyone know this. Question is, if you know this, then why continue to defend it? Because you keep trying to deflect blame yet claim to have not "done much or if any defending of Trump's handling of Covid". Yet, immediately pivot to how disgusting the media is for saying he is responsible for the majority of deaths.

Thats defense. Deflection.

Again, it saddens me that folks will bend backwards to find any reason to mitigate Trump. I guess its the rationalizing that has to be done to continue to support his Administration.

Not sure, but either way, its all over in November. Thank goodness.

SaintForLife said:

Florida -15 Deaths Per 100,000

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Go ahead and add their enormous number of deaths from pneumonia (obviously categorized that way to make their COVID numbers look better - like 10 x's the # of pneumonia deaths between January and April than they've had in any one year or multiple year stretch - to that and they'd probably be killing NY in deaths per 100K.

SaintForLife said:

What should Trump have done differently how would that have made a difference compared to our current situation?

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Not pretended like it was going to magically go away and shut down the country when he knew we had positive cases here? It's been reported that if he'd have shut down two weeks earlier 60,000 people would probably still be alive.

SaintForLife said:

If my assumption is incorrect, how much of the covid deaths and positive cases do you think Trump is responsible for? What should Trump have done differently how would that have made a difference compared to our current situation?

Click to expand...

Because of Trump's vulcan mind control over what passes as a "conservative" today, I'd blame him for a ton of the deaths and, more importantly, an ever increasing share of those deaths as we move forward.

His callous disregard for doing his job led directly to the federal govt ignoring its preparatory role. It has led to his refusal to take action and to invoke his considerable power to force the manufacture and dissemination of PPE. His touting of fish tank cleaner gave false and unsupported hope. His refusal to lead by example and to continue to edge his followers into mindless conspiracy theories continues unabated today and is now leading to the worst case scenario.

Do you remember when he said it was going to go away after 15 people? How about when he said "maybe 60"? Well, as he has failed to prep, to intervene to shut down in targeted ways, to test and track and to do anything resembling invocation of a reasonable federal policy, his blame grows.

The proportion of deaths from 0 to 60k, maybe 10%. Since 60k, 50%. As we pass 120k deaths and race toward half a million in a few months, 80%. By the end of this month, I'll blame him for every death that wasn't the result of a fatal crash where the person tested positive without symptoms and those over 80 years old.

And here's the thing. If he had acted like an adult or even a half-assed reasonable human being when this thing started, we'd be good now. We'd be masked and socially distant and we'd have this under control, but we didn't. Now, under his leadership, Italy looks like they are better than us and we are the laughingstock of the world.

And, it's not a lack of leadership. It's an absolute refusal to lead given his preference for hatefulness, division and self-aggrandizement.

Pitiful.

I think Trump is the first president who actually doesn’t work. He just doesn’t do his job, or anything else, really. The photos of him openly scrolling on his phone during that meeting of small business owners is iconic. That’s his legacy, total indifference to anything having to do with his actual job.

California’s numbers are going up for a couple of reasons. In the Central Valley it’s because it got into the prison systems, slaughter and packing plants for produce, and the retirement homes. Now it’s off to the races in a very conservative area where there isn’t a great amount of mask wearing to the point stores aren’t carrying through with mask wearing because of a certain political viewpoint.
Riverside/LA county are the other two areas. Larger population centers, a lot of poverty and the closer living conditions that go along with it and in Riverside the same political viewpoint where liberty above masks and social distancing. This fits right in with one political belief doing well (SF area) and the other not doing well at all.
But hey, today the administration is trying to get rid of the ACA again. It’s almost like a political faction doesn’t give a care about the health and well being of its citizens.

Well, if you were planning on making that trip to France this summer, hold your horses...

GrandAdmiral said:

Well, if you were planning on making that trip to France this summer, hold your horses...

One graphic explains why Americans are facing an EU travel ban | CNN

US tourists will be excluded from visiting the European Union after the bloc finalized its list of 15 safe countries for travel to member states on Tuesday.

www.cnn.com

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Well his separatist policy is now even affecting us as tourist..

I guess we can all travel where the dictators are? Heck probably not even there. This fumbled response to the coronavirus is just gonna be painful for a long time.

insidejob said:

Go ahead and add their enormous number of deaths from pneumonia (obviously categorized that way to make their COVID numbers look better - like 10 x's the # of pneumonia deaths between January and April than they've had in any one year or multiple year stretch - to that and they'd probably be killing NY in deaths per 100K.

Click to expand...

In an analysis he ran for the Times using publicly available data, Andrew Noymer, a professor who studies population health and disease prevention at the University of California Irvine, did not find major discrepancies between pneumonia and influenza deaths in early 2020 compared to recent years. He found about 1,485 such deaths in 2020, which was within a few hundred of the same period in any year since 2015.