SCOTUS rules on subpoenas of Trump financial records (Update: 2d Cir. rules against Trump) (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

In the criminal grand jury case (Vance - the New York case), the SCOTUS rules that a sitting president is not immune from a state grand jury request. It is a 7-2 opinion (with Roberts joining the 'liberals' and Gorsuch and Kavanaugh concurring). Case is remanded for resolution based on "defenses available" to any person subject to that kind of subpoena.

 

[efil4]

I'm honestly shocked he is that much in debt. What with his campaign, the gop, russia and china funneling money into his hotels etc

these returns are only up to 2017.

I would imagine they look a bit different for 2018-2020.

However, the margins are slim in the hotel industry. You have to run a REEEAALLY tight ship to get anything worthwhile out of it. And you have to constantly expand. But we know he is more about branding than outright owning because he has trouble getting financing to own.

Its all smoke and mirrors.

 

[FullMonte]

I'm honestly shocked he is that much in debt. What with his campaign, the gop, russia and china funneling money into his hotels etc

The problem is that a businessman with even the most miniscule amount of common sense and self control would take all of that money that is being funneled in, and direct a signficant portion towards those debts. But, Trump doesn't seem to do that, he spends it on other things, and allows the debt to just sit there unpaid.

 

[MT15]

I read he took out a $100 million mortgage on Trump Tower several years ago, and that he has only paid interest up until now. The entire sum will have to be repaid in 2021 or 2022. I wonder how he figures to repay that?

No wonder he is funneling campaign money into his company, and there were so many financial irregularities for the Inauguration funding. I read that he wanted to keep all the excess money from the inauguration, just pocket it, and he was livid when told he couldn’t do that.

 

[Ayo]

No wonder he is funneling campaign money into his company

it might be dark, but the first thing I thought of when I saw the Parscale news, along with the dropping of this information, was this report:

Non-Partisan Watchdog Accuses Trump Campaign Of ‘Laundering’ $170 Million

The campaign denied the charges in the complaint, which alleges the campaign used Parscale-connected firms to conceal payments to vendors.

www.forbes.com

The Campaign Legal Center, a nonpartisan campaign finance watchdog group, filed a complaint with the Federal Elections Commission Tuesday accusing the Trump campaign of “laundering” $170 million through numerous companies, some with connections to former Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale.

 

[MT15]

There’s also a new story from a UK TV station (saw it on Twitter) that claims to have a huge data leak from the 2016 campaign spelling out how American citizens were targeted (specifically African Americans) to suppress their vote.

 

[wardorican]

Buried in here, is what the NY AG seems to be after...

Two of those deductions — at Seven Springs and at the Trump National Golf Club in Los Angeles — are the focus of an investigation by the New York attorney general, who is examining whether the appraisals on the land, and therefore the tax deductions, were inflated.

The lead up explaining it.

Perhaps Mr. Trump’s most generous interpretation of the business expense write-off is his treatment of the Seven Springs estate in Westchester County, N.Y.

Seven Springs is a throwback to another era. The main house, built in 1919 by Eugene I. Meyer Jr., the onetime head of the Federal Reserve who bought The Washington Post in 1933, sits on more than 200 acres of lush, almost untouched land just an hour’s drive north of New York City.

“The mansion is 50,000 square feet, has three pools, carriage houses, and is surrounded by nature preserves,” according to The Trump Organization website.

Mr. Trump had big plans when he bought the property in 1996 — a golf course, a clubhouse and 15 private homes. But residents of surrounding towns thwarted his ambitions, arguing that development would draw too much traffic and risk polluting the drinking water.

Mr. Trump instead found a way to reap tax benefits from the estate. He took advantage of what is known as a conservation easement. In 2015, he signed a deal with a land conservancy, agreeing not to develop most of the property. In exchange, he claimed a $21.1 million charitable tax deduction.


The tax records reveal another way Seven Springs has generated substantial tax savings. In 2014, Mr. Trump classified the estate as an investment property, as distinct from a personal residence. Since then, he has written off $2.2 million in property taxes as a business expense — even as his 2017 tax law allowed individuals to write off only $10,000 in property taxes a year.

Courts have held that to treat residences as businesses for tax purposes, owners must show that they have “an actual and honest objective of making a profit,” typically by making substantial efforts to rent the property and eventually generating income.

Whether or not Seven Springs fits those criteria, the Trumps have described the property somewhat differently.

In 2014, Eric Trump told Forbes that “this is really our compound.” Growing up, he and his brother Donald Jr. spent many summers there, riding all-terrain vehicles and fishing on a nearby lake. At one point, the brothers took up residence in a carriage house on the property. “It was home base for us for a long, long time,” Eric told Forbes.

And the Trump Organization website still describes Seven Springs as a “retreat for the Trump family.”

Mr. Garten, the Trump Organization lawyer, did not respond to a question about the Seven Springs write-off.

 

[TaylorB]

This story has so many angles that are bad for Trump. I am not sure how to rank them. Some that come to mind include:

-- he's broke, and has been overstating his wealth and business acumen for years (this has been clear to most of us for some time);

-- he advocated for, and helped pass, corporate tax cuts and tax benefits for the wealthy at a time when he was already paying far less in taxes than most ordinary Americans;

-- he and close family members are very likely to have criminal exposure at both the state and federal levels for various iterations of tax fraud (it is unclear from this reporting whether they are also exposed for bank fraud, but that it highly likely too);

-- because he has massive debts due in the near future without an obvious path to paying them, he's far more susceptible to corrupt foreign or domestic influence than we knew, even though we already believed him to be extremely susceptible to such influence;

-- his abysmal coronavirus response -- including a plan that simply involved lying to Americans about it and hoping the pandemic went away on its own -- can be much better understood in the context of Trump being hundreds of millions in debt while being heavily invested in the entertainment and lodging industries which are dependent on a healthy economy to be profitable (and which weren't profitable even in a healthy economy).

There are plenty of others.

It's always hard to know how these types of stories impact the big picture. For the most part, peoples' minds are made up. But if "self-made billionaire" is the only thing on your resume that people think qualifies you to run a country, it can't help your case when it's convincingly revealed that you're hundreds of millions of dollars in debt.

 

[Optimus Prime]

and here is a response from a supporter
=============================

......Polly Hartsook, 68, who runs a farm with her husband in Ringgold County, Iowa, said the tax system was written to help "job creators."

"My guess is Donald Trump didn't prepare his tax returns, his tax preparers did it," said Hartsook, who said she voted for Trump in 2016 and will do so again. "Rather than give his money to the Treasury, Trump reinvests his money in things that provide jobs to other people.".............

Trump tax revelations spark outrage among some, but supporters defend president

 

[efil4]

and here is a response from a supporter
=============================

......Polly Hartsook, 68, who runs a farm with her husband in Ringgold County, Iowa, said the tax system was written to help "job creators."

"My guess is Donald Trump didn't prepare his tax returns, his tax preparers did it," said Hartsook, who said she voted for Trump in 2016 and will do so again. "Rather than give his money to the Treasury, Trump reinvests his money in things that provide jobs to other people.".............

Trump tax revelations spark outrage among some, but supporters defend president

Like we all figured, to his staunchest of supporters, he does this for the "good". Thats the ONLY way some can rationalize this without fully accepting they have been conned. So they will continue to make excuses ...NOT for DJT because he needs them, for themselves not to accept they have been bamboozled.

 

[MT15]

Saw a screenshot from The Donald, which used to be a toxic sub on Reddit, but I thought they got booted. Anyway, their framing was something like: Trump outsmarts inherently racist US government and pays zero in taxes. Good for him! Oh, and The Donald is pretty much dominated by white supremacists, in case the racist term threw you. They are saying the US government is racist toward whites.

 

[The moose]

and here is a response from a supporter
=============================

......Polly Hartsook, 68, who runs a farm with her husband in Ringgold County, Iowa, said the tax system was written to help "job creators."

"My guess is Donald Trump didn't prepare his tax returns, his tax preparers did it," said Hartsook, who said she voted for Trump in 2016 and will do so again. "Rather than give his money to the Treasury, Trump reinvests his money in things that provide jobs to other people.".............

Trump tax revelations spark outrage among some, but supporters defend president

Yep that is exactly what I would expect out of the boomer generation that thinks trickle down works.

The amazing thing is these are the same people that are oblivious to the fact that their generation has robbed the younger generations blind.

 

[MT15]

Moose, just stop it. This kind of rhetoric is ridiculous. I didn’t rob anyone blind, I’ve never believed in trickle down, quit acting like a whole group of people lumped together by age are a monolithic block. It’s stupid.

 

[Nebaghead]

Moose, just stop it. This kind of rhetoric is ridiculous. I didn’t rob anyone blind, I’ve never believed in trickle down, quit acting like a whole group of people lumped together by age are a monolithic block. It’s stupid.

My dad is a boomer and he hated trickle down.

 

[The moose]

Moose, just stop it. This kind of rhetoric is ridiculous. I didn’t rob anyone blind, I’ve never believed in trickle down, quit acting like a whole group of people lumped together by age are a monolithic block. It’s stupid.

Did I ever say you?

I was speaking of the lady in that article that believing the tax code is to help job creators and making excuses for Trump's actions. And yes she was the type that bought trickle down hook line and sinker.

If that tax code was truly for the wealthy to create jobs then our jobs would still be here and not elsewhere.

That is who I was talking about.

Heck even crooked filthy rich guys pay something what Trump has done is criminal.

And no I don't blame all boomers for where we are hell Bill Clinton was a boomer and we could actually have a surplus not a national dept if we don't go to war all the friggin time.

I sure was not trying to offend you.

 

[MT15]

I know you didn’t intend to offend me, but you used words and sentence structure that lumped everyone in a certain age group together. How am I not supposed to think you were talking about me?

The use of these generational terms is part of an attempt to divide us, IMO, no different than any other label that is applied to any other group of people. Example: There exist certain very rich people who would love to get rid of Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. They know that will be extremely difficult if older people are respected, and the celebration of the Greatest Generation must have frustrated them.

So over the years we have a whole spate of articles celebrating this pop-sociology generational crap (more akin to astrology than anything else) and they propose that the Boomer generation are terrible people, selfish to their core, label them racist, constantly keeping young people down. Now it’s a lot easier to think about cutting or getting rid of Social Security, right?

And I have actually spoken up at work seminars where older supervisors were complaining about younger workers. To posit that everyone in a generation shares personality traits or even has the same outlook on work or life, beyond some very superficial shared world experiences, because of the freaking year they were born is just ludicrous. Believe me, every generation has great people and creeps. As far as I can tell they are in about the same proportion. Heck, people haven’t really changed since The Canterbury Tales, lol.

So, sorry for the long rant, it’s a pet peeve of mine. I will shut up now. (for a little while).

 

[TaylorB]

Saw a screenshot from The Donald, which used to be a toxic sub on Reddit, but I thought they got booted. Anyway, their framing was something like: Trump outsmarts inherently racist US government and pays zero in taxes. Good for him! Oh, and The Donald is pretty much dominated by white supremacists, in case the racist term threw you. They are saying the US government is racist toward whites.

I know it's Reddit, but people seem to have a really hard time with this. He paid zero in taxes because his businesses' losses exceeded their revenues. That is not outsmarting the government.

Yes, even for the handful of years where he posted taxable gains, he employed tax *avoidance* strategies (some of which --like the Ivanka consultant scheme -- likely rise to the level of tax *evasion*, depending on the underlying records), but him paying 0 in taxes for 10 of 15 years was not part of some brilliant shell game where his accountants outsmarted the IRS. He was hemorrhaging so much cash (or more precisely, so much cash was disappearing into his golf course ventures) that it offset gains for an entire decade.

If paying 0 in taxes because of your business failures is "outsmarting the government," then so is paying 0 in taxes because you don't have a job. By that infallible logic, the Trump admin's inept response to COVID is helping millions of Americans outsmart the government!

 

[MT15]

So I saw some interesting speculation about Trump buying all these golf courses. Supposedly this is a fairly recent interest for the Trump Organization. He met with some developers from a former Soviet state, can’t remember which one, who are famous for laundering organized crime money through golf courses. And all of a sudden Trump starts buying golf courses everywhere.

Weird, huh?

 

[superchuck500]

Trump will have one last chance at the Supreme Court (but now only on ordinary objections) in the Vance/Mazars case.