Your Weather, Our Weather (1 Viewer)

[Huntn]

Since June we (East Texas) have been running mid 90s to low 100sF (32-40C) with with hear indexes about 110F, lows of 85F (29C) at night. A high pressure dome of heat parked over the Central US bringing no rain (at least to Texas) for several weeks and high temps. Comparing F to C. I prefer the spread of F over C, but consider I grew up with F. A recent trip to Corpus Christi we saw large large fields of immature brown/dead corn.
An alarming report is that the Oceans are turning green (more plant matter growing) due to the rise of temps, sharks are reported as dying. Another report said that El Niño usually causes a reduction of Atlantic hurricane activity, but with oceans heating up, that may change.

I never thought I would be living in such a transitional period for the Earth. We have been warned for 40 years, yet as a species, we just blunder along until we are smacked upside the head.

 

[bird]

These tweets couldn't be from real people! I refuse to believe that there are people out there are that stupid.

I hate to break it to you but, yes, there are people that stupid out there. Also that gullible. Conspiracy theories are, imo, a defense mechanism when people confront things that either attack their belief structures or appear to be beyond their comprehension.

It is flocking depressing.

 

[Optimus Prime]

A rightwing organization is attacking efforts to educate judges about the climate crisis. The group appears to be connected to Leonard Leo, the architect of the rightwing takeover of the American judiciary who helped select Trump’s supreme court nominees, the Guardian has learned.

The Washington DC-based non-profit Environmental Law Institute (Eli)’s Climate Judiciary Project holds seminars for lawyers and judges about the climate crisis.

It aims to “provide neutral, objective information to the judiciary about the science of climate change as it is understood by the expert scientific community and relevant to current and future litigation”, according to Eli’s website.

The American Energy Institute (AEI), a rightwing, pro-fossil fuel thinktank, has been attacking Eli and their climate trainings in recent months. In August, the organization published a report saying Eli was “corruptly influencing the courts and destroying the rule of law to promote questionable climate science”.


Eli’s Climate Judiciary Project is “falsely portraying itself as a neutral entity teaching judges about questionable climate science”, the report says. In reality, AEI claims, the project is a partner to the more than two dozen US cities and states who are suing big oil for allegedly sowing doubt about the climate crisis despite longstanding knowledge of the climate dangers of coal, oil and gas usage.

In a PowerPoint presentation about the report found on AEI’s website, the group says the Climate Judiciary Project (CJP) is a “wholly aligned with the climate change plaintiffs and helps them corruptly influence judges behind closed doors”.

“Their true purpose is to preview the plaintiffs’ arguments in the climate cases in an ex parte setting,” the presentation says.……

Leonard Leo-linked group attacking efforts to educate judges on climate

Rightwing US thinktank claimed in report that non-profit holding trainings is ‘corruptly influencing the courts’

www.theguardian.com

 

[LA - L.A.]

The last high end G5 storm didn't appear do as much damage as a wildfires of the kind we are having around here are.

We haven't had a high end G5 storm for a long time. Which one are you talking about? If you mean the one this year, that was a low end G5. A much more powerful G5 just barely missed us several years ago. Eventually, we will get hit with one.

I say focus on climate change and social issues.

I say focus on all of the above. We are fully capable of walking and chewing gum. The only reason we don't is because of mindsets like you're demonstrating on this issue. It's narrow minded and unnecessarily dangerous in my opinion. It's the mindset that allows so many avoidable catastrophes to occur. History is littered with rapidly collapsed civilizations who thought, "it's never going to happen."

 

[LA - L.A.]

The American Energy Institute (AEI), a rightwing, pro-fossil fuel thinktank, has been attacking Eli and their climate trainings in recent months. In August, the organization published a report saying Eli was “corruptly influencing the courts and destroying the rule of law to promote questionable climate science”.

Leonard Leo-linked group attacking efforts to educate judges on climate

Rightwing US thinktank claimed in report that non-profit holding trainings is ‘corruptly influencing the courts’

www.theguardian.com

Every accusation is a confession. Leo gets it. If you want to fix the game, then you need the referees in your pocket, not the players. That's why he's so upset that another group is trying to get judges out of his pocket.

 

[bird]

Every accusation is a confession. Leo gets it. If you want to fix the game, then you need to the referees in your pocket, not the players. That's why he's so upset that another group is trying to get judges out of his pocket.

Yup. Legislative capture, regulatory capture and judicial capture.

 

[SamAndreas]

We haven't had a high end G5 storm for a long time. Which one are you talking about? If you mean the one this year, that was a low end G5. A much more powerful G5 just barely missed us several years ago. Eventually, we will get hit with one.


I say focus on all of the above. We are fully capable of walking and chewing gum. The only reason we don't is because of mindsets like you're demonstrating on this issue. It's narrow minded and unnecessarily dangerous in my opinion. It's the mindset that allows so many avoidable catastrophes to occur. History is littered with rapidly collapsed civilizations who thought, "it's never going to happen."

This article seems to cover it well, filling in real where there is real and deflecting some of the histarria factor.

It's about the way I view it. And I view current grid upgrades which are going in now at a feverish pitch to harden grid so it doesn't start fires will also strengthen the grid for solar storms.

If they power the grid down before a really bad solar storm it will protect the grid even more. A few power outages here and there are not a disaster. I know this because they turn off my grid when the fire risk grows too high with high winds. I have perhaps 40 hours a year with the power turned off. It's not a disaster to have a safety shut down of the grid.

So there's that way to deal with it as well. Turn off the power to protect the ability to transmit power when the storm is over.

The Strongest Solar Storm in 20 Years Was Mostly Harmless, but We May Not Be So Lucky Next Time

Years of careful planning helped safeguard against last weekend’s severe space weather, but we still don’t know how we’d cope with a monster event

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[LA - L.A.]

This article seems to cover it well, filling in real where there is real and deflecting some of the histarria factor.

That's not really what the article says. In fact, the entire clearly states that the recent solar storm is not nearly as strong as what's going to hit us in the future. There's a lot more denial on your end than there is "histeria" on my end. Here's some quotes from the article you linked that contradict what you keep saying:

"But while we’ve passed our biggest test yet, experts say now is not the time to let down our guard: the question of more cataclysmic solar activity isn’t a matter of “if” but “when.”​

​

"...the weekend’s storm was “nowhere close” to the strength of more powerful known historical events."​

​

"At present, it’s difficult to say just how close we came to catastrophe because many companies—from grid controllers to satellite operators—do not like to reveal information on how a geomagnetic storm affected them, says Daniel Welling, a climate and space scientist at the University of Michigan. “They don’t want to look like they’re vulnerable,” he says."​

​

"Similar precautions were likely taken at other power grids around the world, too, although the lack of information makes it “tremendously” difficult to know how effective those measures were, Welling says."​

​

"While big, this storm is not the extent of what we can expect to face in the coming decades—or perhaps much sooner as the sun heads toward the peak of its 11-year activity cycle in 2025."​

​

"The most powerful recorded geomagnetic storms in history, the Carrington Event of 1859 and the New York Railroad Storm of 1921, both registered at around –900 nT, although the former was potentially as high as –1,750 nT. Last weekend’s storm came in at a more sedate –412 nT, Dahl says. “Even though this was historic, it was nowhere close to the level of 1921 and 1859,” he says."​

The conclusion is we got lucky it wasn't a stronger storm and we really don't know how much damage it did or didn't do to the world's grids. People in the article repeatedly say we can't stop preparing and improving.

It's about the way I view it. And I view current grid upgrades which are going in now at a feverish pitch to harden grid so it doesn't start fires will also strengthen the grid for solar storms.

What specific upgrades are they doing that you think will make the grid less vulnerable to a severe electromagnetic/solar storm? Most of what they are doing is upgrading hooks and other support structures that transmission lines hang from to prevent the lines from falling and causing a fire.geomagnetic/solar storms. Nothing else they are doing to prevent fires will harden the grid against more severe geomagnetic/solar storms.

What specifcally do you know that they are doing that you think will protect the grid from more sever solar storms? Everything I read says that partically none of the power grids on the planet are upgrading them to protect them from more severe solar storms.

What specifically do you know power companies are doing that experts in the field do not know that the power companies are doing?

If they power the grid down before a really bad solar storm it will protect the grid even more.

That worked during the most recent storm, because it was much less severe than the solar storms that are coming. For the more severe solar storms roughly 75% of the planet's power grids would have to be powered down from dawn to dusk for about 4 consecutive days.

That in itself will create a cascading catastrophe from the disruption that it would cause. We don't even know if that will work to prevent damage from the more severe solar storms we will be hit with.

A few power outages here and there are not a disaster.

Hundreds to thousands across the planet are. You keep unrealistically minimizing the actual scale of impact that scientists who study this are warning us about. It reminds me of people who get through a diminishing Category 1 hurricane mostly unscathed telling themselves, "people make a bigger deal out of the impact of hurricanes than they really have."

I know this because they turn off my grid when the fire risk grows too high with high winds.

For how many people for how many days? You're not realistic at all about the scale of disruption created by more severe solar storms. The power shut down would not be limited to just your neck of the woods. It would be planet wide and last from dawn to dusk for around 4 days.

Imagine what would happen if just 75% of the US turned off it's power grid from dawn to dusk for four straight days. That in itself would set off a catastrophic cascade of events. Now, scale that up to 75% of the planet.

I have perhaps 40 hours a year with the power turned off. It's not a disaster to have a safety shut down of the grid.

For almost the whole planet for several days, it absolutely is a disaster at a scale we've never seen before. It's amazing you don't understand that.

So there's that way to deal with it as well. Turn off the power to protect the ability to transmit power when the storm is over.

This isn't a storm that passes through a small geographic area in a few hours. It's a planet wide storm that lasts for four days on average.

Bottom line, it's not a problem that we have to fear if we take preventative measures now. If we don't take those prevantive measures now, then it's a matter of when the catastrophe strikes, not if. The article you quoted says as much.

The Strongest Solar Storm in 20 Years Was Mostly Harmless, but We May Not Be So Lucky Next Time

Years of careful planning helped safeguard against last weekend’s severe space weather, but we still don’t know how we’d cope with a monster event

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[SamAndreas]

That's not really what the article says. In fact, the entire clearly states that the recent solar storm is not nearly as strong as what's going to hit us in the future. There's a lot more denial on your end than there is "histeria" on my end. Here's some quotes from the article you linked that contradict what you keep saying:

"But while we’ve passed our biggest test yet, experts say now is not the time to let down our guard: the question of more cataclysmic solar activity isn’t a matter of “if” but “when.”​

​

"...the weekend’s storm was “nowhere close” to the strength of more powerful known historical events."​

​

"At present, it’s difficult to say just how close we came to catastrophe because many companies—from grid controllers to satellite operators—do not like to reveal information on how a geomagnetic storm affected them, says Daniel Welling, a climate and space scientist at the University of Michigan. “They don’t want to look like they’re vulnerable,” he says."​

​

"Similar precautions were likely taken at other power grids around the world, too, although the lack of information makes it “tremendously” difficult to know how effective those measures were, Welling says."​

​

"While big, this storm is not the extent of what we can expect to face in the coming decades—or perhaps much sooner as the sun heads toward the peak of its 11-year activity cycle in 2025."​

​

"The most powerful recorded geomagnetic storms in history, the Carrington Event of 1859 and the New York Railroad Storm of 1921, both registered at around –900 nT, although the former was potentially as high as –1,750 nT. Last weekend’s storm came in at a more sedate –412 nT, Dahl says. “Even though this was historic, it was nowhere close to the level of 1921 and 1859,” he says."​

The conclusion is we got lucky it wasn't a stronger storm and we really don't know how much damage it did or didn't do to the world's grids. People in the article repeatedly say we can't stop preparing and improving.


What specific upgrades are they doing that you think will make the grid less vulnerable to a severe electromagnetic/solar storm? Most of what they are doing is upgrading hooks and other support structures that transmission lines hang from to prevent the lines from falling and causing a fire.geomagnetic/solar storms. Nothing else they are doing to prevent fires will harden the grid against more severe geomagnetic/solar storms.

What specifcally do you know that they are doing that you think will protect the grid from more sever solar storms? Everything I read says that partically none of the power grids on the planet are upgrading them to protect them from more severe solar storms.

What specifically do you know power companies are doing that experts in the field do not know that the power companies are doing?


That worked during the most recent storm, because it was much less severe than the solar storms that are coming. For the more severe solar storms roughly 75% of the planet's power grids would have to be powered down from dawn to dusk for about 4 consecutive days.

That in itself will create a cascading catastrophe from the disruption that it would cause. We don't even know if that will work to prevent damage from the more severe solar storms we will be hit with.

Hundreds to thousands across the planet are. You keep unrealistically minimizing the actual scale of impact that scientists who study this are warning us about. It reminds me of people who get through a diminishing Category 1 hurricane mostly unscathed telling themselves, "people make a bigger deal out of the impact of hurricanes than they really have."


For how many people for how many days? You're not realistic at all about the scale of disruption created by more severe solar storms. The power shut down would not be limited to just your neck of the woods. It would be planet wide and last from dawn to dusk for around 4 days.

Imagine what would happen if just 75% of the US turned off it's power grid from dawn to dusk for four straight days. That in itself would set off a catastrophic cascade of events. Now, scale that up to 75% of the planet.


For almost the whole planet for several days, it absolutely is a disaster at a scale we've never seen before. It's amazing you don't understand that.


This isn't a storm that passes through a small geographic area in a few hours. It's a planet wide storm that lasts for four days on average.

Bottom line, it's not a problem that we have to fear if we take preventative measures now. If we don't take those prevantive measures now, then it's a matter of when the catastrophe strikes, not if. The article you quoted says as much.

I don't do this multi-quote split it apart thing.

The article didn't catalog any grid disruptions which did more than cause minor inconvenience.

You appears to think four days of power being off during the day time to weather a bad solar storm is a major thing. It isn't, I go through four day periods of power off due to fire risk where it is off both day and night.

The current rebuilding of our grid here involved new poles, new cross bars at the top which are made of metal instead of wood and new insulators. They are installing a lot more surge resistors, and switches they can open and close from the office through network control. They can shut off and isolate grid sections to minimize the factor of long wire lengths crossing great distances.

They already have the ability to open an additional switch at every service meter from their office network, which will isolate houses from the grid so that a surge coming in from the line will not damage things in a home.

They are also putting quite a bit of the grid underground. Where those very high fire risk areas exist they are burying the lines under the county roads.

All of this is directly helpful insofar as dealing with real present danger the fire risk, while also serendipitously dealing with the possible solar storm risk as a serendipitous by product.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I don't do this multi-quote split it apart thing.

The article didn't catalog any grid disruptions which did more than cause minor inconvenience.

The article clearly stated that the power companies are known for not reporting any problems or damage. I directly quoted that part of the article.

You appears to think four days of power being off during the day time to weather a bad solar storm is a major thing.

When it happens across half the planet at the same time, it's a major thing. You're thinking local and small region only. That's minor. When it spread across half the planet, it very much becomes a major thing.

The current rebuilding of our grid here involved new poles, new cross bars at the top which are made of metal instead of wood and new insulators. They are installing a lot more surge resistors, and switches they can open and close from the office through network control. They can shut off and isolate grid sections to minimize the factor of long wire lengths crossing great distances.

They already have the ability to open an additional switch at every service meter from their office network, which will isolate houses from the grid so that a surge coming in from the line will not damage things in a home.

They are also putting quite a bit of the grid underground. Where those very high fire risk areas exist they are burying the lines under the county roads.

As I said, they are making improvements to avoid structural failures that start fires. That's all they are doing.

All of this is directly helpful insofar as dealing with real present danger the fire risk,

That part is completely true.

...while also serendipitously dealing with the possible solar storm risk as a serendipitous by product.

That part is completely false. You just keep repeating the same falsehoods as if that makes them true. It does not.

You don't seem to understand the physics of how geomagnetic/solar storms damage power grids. I've posted scientific explanations, but you just keep ignoring the actual science and I suspect you will continue to ignore it, so I'm not going to waste anymore time discussing this with you.

 

[SamAndreas]

The article clearly stated that the power companies are known for not reporting any problems or damage. I directly quoted that part of the article.


When it happens across half the planet at the same time, it's a major thing. You're thinking local and small region only. That's minor. When it spread across half the planet, it very much becomes a major thing.


As I said, they are making improvements to avoid structural failures that start fires. That's all they are doing.


That part is completely true.


That part is completely false. You just keep repeating the same falsehoods as if that makes them true. It does not.

You don't seem to understand the physics of how geomagnetic/solar storms damage power grids. I've posted scientific explanations, but you just keep ignoring the actual science and I suspect you will continue to ignore it, so I'm not going to waste anymore time discussing this with you.

I think the difference between you and me, is I'm a retired steamfitter fellow who happens to hold a bachelor's degree in Physics.
I worked with electrical process controls, and large motors, which were tied to the electrical power grid for most of my life.

I have set and hooked up ten thousand horsepower motors. Six of them. They were the compressor motors for a 36 inch CO2 slurry pipeline 600 miles long. From Southwestern Colorado to Texas.


What have you done?


I think you're heavily invested in science fiction.

I'm also wondering if you're a person who I interacted with, and liked for about ten years at a site called Radio Free Liberals.

Don't get me wrong, I like you. But I think you're heavily invested in science fiction insofar as this topic.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I think the difference between you and me, is I'm a retired steamfitter fellow who happens to hold a bachelor's degree in Physics.
I worked with electrical process controls, and large motors, which were tied to the electrical power grid for most of my life.

I have set and hooked up ten thousand horsepower motors. Six of them. They were the compressor motors for a 36 inch CO2 slurry pipeline 600 miles long. From Southwestern Colorado to Texas.


What have you done?

What you and I have done has no relevance in this discussion, because neither one of us are experts in the area of geomagnetic/solar storms. I've been quoting the actual experts to you and you keep ignoring it and it seems to me you think you know better than the actual experts in this field.

I never claimed to be the expert in this area and I know that I'm not. I do know enough to recognize who's an expert and who isn't. I've been quoting the actual experts in this area. You have been disagreeing with, dismissing and ignoring what I've quoted from the actual experts in this area.

I think you're heavily invested in science fiction.

I picked up on that several posts ago. I'm okay with it.

I'm also wondering if you're a person who I interacted with, and liked for about ten years at a site called Radio Free Liberals.

Nope. This is the first I've heard of Radio Free Liberals and this is the only site I share some of my thoughts on.

Don't get me wrong, I like you.

Okay. I generally like what you write, even when I don't agree with it.

But I think you're heavily invested in science fiction insofar as this topic.

Again, I picked up on that several posts ago. I'm okay with it.

 

[MT15]

Two part tweet. Schlapp is such an idiot, as are most theo bro science deniers. And I never understood the resistance to trying to accomplish the goals of people who are warning us about climate change. They’re great goals that will benefit humans.

 

[coldseat]

Two part tweet. Schlapp is such an idiot, as are most theo bro science deniers. And I never understood the resistance to trying to accomplish the goals of people who are warning us about climate change. They’re great goals that will benefit humans.

What we would lose is our corporations rights to pollute the earth for financial gain without government restriction. That's what they're really fighting for.