Why Even Conservatives Should Oppose Trump's Asylum Ban 2.0 (1 Viewer)

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    On July 16 of this year, the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice issued a final interim rule by which they amended their regulations
    "to provide that, with limited exceptions, an alien who enters or attempts to enter the United States across the southern border after failing to apply for protection in a third country outside the alien's country of citizenship, nationality, or last lawful habitual residence through which the alien transited en route to the United States is ineligible for asylum."

    The new Rule, which became known in the media as the "transit ban" and in immigration circles as the "Asylum Ban 2.0," should have been a big deal. Nevertheless, as tends to happen in this Year of Our Lord 2019, it was lost in the shuffle. In this particular case, the dangling set of shiny keys that grabbed our collective attention was, admittedly, a particularly newsworthy one--we discovered that the Amazon was in flames. Days later, Brazil's recently-elected president Jair Bolsonaro responded to the outrage by shouting "Fake News" and telling the G7 to shove its aid package where the sun don't shine.

    Not long thereafter, the Ban was back in the news. On September 11, the Supreme Court issued an unsigned opinion in which it stayed the 9th Circuit's injunction of the ban (in other words, the Court ruled that the ban would stay in effect while litigation over its validity makes its way through the courts--a process which could take years). It was a big win for the Trump Administration (Trump himself used the words "big win" on Twitter, if memory serves). Again, however, the ban skirted under our national radar. This time the culprit was Sharpie-gate, a far more interesting (and frankly hilarious) development than an unsigned SCOTUS opinion regarding a travel ban that few of us even knew existed.

    Still, distractions aside, we all have good reason to care about the asylum ban. For liberals, it's simple--the ban is yet another impediment to relief for the roughly 2,200 people who cross our southern border every day. But the ban should be problematic for conservatives too, and I'll do my best to explain why. But first, some background for the uninitiated:

    What is asylum?
    Asylum is one of three forms of what immigration attorneys refer to as "fear-based" relief. The other two are Withholding of Removal and relief under the international Convention Against Torture (CAT), of which the United States is a member state.

    Very basically, to win an asylum claim, the applicant must demonstrate a "well-founded fear of persecution" in her home country based on either past persecution or a risk of future persecution if returned to that country. That fear must be both subjective and objective; that is, not only must the applicant herself fear such persecution but that fear must be also objectively "reasonable." Additionally, the persecution must be "on account of" the applicant's race, religion, national origin, political opinion, or membership in a particular social group. Finally, the persecution must either be carried out (1) by the government of the home country or (2) by some non-state actor which the government is either unwilling or unable to control.

    Asylum applications can be affirmative or defensive. In an affirmative application, the applicant requests asylum either upon arrival to the US or, subject to a few exceptions, within a year of such arrival. In defensive asylum, the applicant requests after having received a Notice to Appear (NTA) in immigration court--essentially a charging document in which the government alleges that the applicant is present in the US unlawfully and is subject to deportation.

    What was the first Asylum Ban?
    Back in 2018, the Trump Administration announced a similar rule by which it barred asylum to anyone who did not enter the United States at a point of entry. In other words, if you swam across the Rio Grande or hiked through the desert, you were ineligible for asylum. That rule was quickly challenged in court, and unlike with the more recent rule, the Supreme Court in that case determined that the first ban would not go into effect until it had been fully litigated in the courts. As the New Yorker does an excellent job of explaining, refusing to stay the injunction of the first ban was likely an easier decision for the Court since the Immigration and Naturalization Act specifically creates the opportunity for anyone "physically present" in the US to apply for asylum regardless of manner of entry.

    How is the Asylum Ban 2.0 different?
    With the new rule, the Trump Administration has shifted its focus from the manner of entry to another hot topic of asylum law--the so-called "Safe Third Country" exception. Under US law (even prior to the promulgation of Travel Ban 2.0), an applicant may not apply for asylum in the United States if the applicant had already been physically present in a Safe Third Country--that is, a country in which the applicant (1) did not have a well-founded fear of persecution and (2) had a "full and fair" opportunity to seek asylum.

    To be clear, US law has long recognized a "Safe Third Country" exception to asylum, but Safe Third Countries had to be designated as such by a formal agreement, and until recently, the only state with which the US had ever formed such an agreement was Canada. More recently, however, the Trump Administration reached similar agreements with Honduras and Guatemala. Unsurprisingly, the deals provoked international outrage--after all, Honduras and Guatemala can hardly be considered "safe"--the State Department has issued travel warnings for both, and the countries have the fifth- and sixteenth-highest murder rates in the entire world, respectively.

    What the new ban does is essentially eliminate the safety requirement (and obviate the need for Third Country agreements). Now, mere transit through any country other than the one from which the applicant seeks to escape is a bar to asylum in the United States. And that is huge.

    From 2015-2017, about 26,500 people were granted asylum in the US. Of that number, about 8,500--almost one-third--were from the Central American's Northern Triangle of Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador. Over the same period of time, about 5,500 successful applications were lodged by Chinese. For reference, China's population is roughly 50 times greater than that of the entire Northern Triangle.

    Image result for northern triangle


    Thus, the new rule effectively denies asylum to the three countries that most seek it. Any refugee from Guatemala, Honduras, or El Salvador who boards the Death Train and makes the perilous journey to our southern border on or after July 16, 2019, is effectively ineligible to seek asylum.

    The Asylum Ban 2.0 is Inconsistent with Conservative Immigration Policy
    Now for the tricky part. I want to set aside the more traditional arguments on either side of the immigration debate. On the left, these include "We are a nation of immigrants;" "We stole this land in the first place;" and "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." On the right, they tend to be "We are a nation of laws;" "Our social safety nets are already spread thin;" and "'legal good, illegal bad.'"

    What makes the Asylum Ban 2.0 politically incomprehensible is that does nothing to assuage the concerns of either side of the aisle.

    First of all, contrary to the President's many suggestions otherwise, asylum is discretionary--the Attorney General does not have to grant it. Imagine, for example, that an active member of MS-13 effectively demonstrates a well-founded fear of persecution in his home country based on his membership in a Particular Social Group. Despite having made a prima facie case for asylum, the Attorney General could--and most certainly would--deny asylum.

    Secondly, and perhaps more frustratingly, the Asylum Ban 2.0 will do little to deter migration and will only incentivize clandestine border crossings. Due to the Trump Administration's "Remain in Mexico" policy, asylum-seekers who attempt to enter the United States "legally" at recognized points of entry are sent back into the notoriously dangerous cities of northern Mexico to wait indefinitely while their claims are adjudicated. As a result, for members of this particularly vulnerable population, it simply makes more sense to cross the border por tierra o por agua and hope to fly under the radar in the United States.

    The Administration's belief that it can deter immigration by making life harder for migrants is misguided, not only because it is inhumane but because it fails to take into account the gravity of the crisis in the Northern Triangle. This isn't your parents' immigration debate. Long gone are the days in which the majority of those crossing the border were Mexican laborers in search of a better life. These days, overwhelmingly, those arriving are refugees from borderline failed states.

    Anyone who believes that the United States is capable of making immigration so difficult or uncomfortable--whether by building walls, separating families, or raiding apartment buildings--that these people would prefer to remain at home simply misunderstands what life is like in the Northern Triangle.

    After all, asylum is a good thing. Asylees eventually become eligible to adjust their immigration status to that of lawful permanent resident--"green card" holders--and later full citizens. And even before they adjust their status, asylees can get work authorization. That means asylees don't have to work under the table. It means they pay taxes.

    Finally, we mustn't forget that the alternatives to asylum are worse for everyone involved. Remember that I mentioned there were three forms of fear-based relief? Well, unlike asylum, withholding of removal and relief under the Convention Against Torture are not discretionary (such is the case because these obligations arise under the international law of non-refoulement). Similarly, whereas asylum offers a path to citizenship and legal residency, withholding and CAT relief create no such stability.

    Almost all of us agree that legal immigration is good. Why, then, are we doing away with one of the few areas of our immigration law that, while strained and imperfect, consistently achieves results that are palatable to both sides of the aisle?
     
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    It sounds good to make such a moral argument, but what does it really mean - "That is not what our country is about"? It strikes me as self-righteous babble when confronted with legitimate reasons for changing our immigration policies and approach.

    When we accepted the refugees from Vietnam did we ask what was in it for us?

    I suppose the declaration of independence and Preamble to the constitution are also self righteous...
     
    When we accepted the refugees from Vietnam did we ask what was in it for us?

    I suppose the declaration of independence and Preamble to the constitution are also self righteous...
    Yes, I do think we asked what is in it for us. We were in a Cold War with communist forces, accepting refugees from communist regimes played perfectly into our hands as an aspect to the Cold War.

    As far as the Constitution and DoI - I am not sure exactly what you mean, but no - I don't find either one of them self-righteous.
     
    I wanted to address the OP:

    1 - the idea that asylum is discretionary is exactly what this change highlights. Making people apply for asylum in the first country entered where there is no fear of persecution is something many countries require - the EU requires it by law. And making that an aspect of the discretion of the AG does not strike me as extraordinary in the least.
    2 - As far as actually encouraging immigration, I am not sure that is true. Isn't the idea, as expressed by conservatives (the point of your post) that the asylum system encourages immigration by allowing people into the country with a declaration of asylum and then where they essentially stay as long as they want (or at least as long as they do not commit a serious crime and show up on ICE radar)? The idea that altering that system by requiring a declaration of asylum in MExico, or wherever else, will strike conservatives as leading to increased illegal immigration seems odd, perhaps there is more of an argument to be ade here?
     
    2 questions if you don't mind.

    1) it was maybe a year ago one of the caravans bum rushed the Mexican border to get across after they got pissed at not being let in. I was curious of your opinion or opinions of people you knew. I watched a video feed from Mexico right after it happened and people on there were pissed. Pissed enough that a lot of them were agreeing with Trump (at the time) of why he didn't want them in the U.S.
    People are pissed. Not only because of the bum rush, but for a number of well publicized incidents that happened during the last couple caravans.

    Obviously no one is happy with what's happening at the border. With the size of the caravans, every encampment becomes a landfill; they don't clean after themselves, and they don't care what they leave behind. There have been incidents of crime; some have tried to hook up with the cartels; there have been arrests/deportations over violence, weapons charges, even kidnapping. Their demands for care, they reached a "crescendo" when they started complaining that the food they were given was "food for pigs", when they were given beans and tortillas to eat; mind you, tortillas and beans are staples of Mexican diets anywhere and everywhere in and outside of México, and surely Mexicans weren't about to break out the carnitas and the chicharra. Thousands have been offered jobs in México, and they decline them, many even offended of the jobs they were offered, or that they were offered one to begin with.

    There was more support for them before in the State of Chiapas (which borders Guatemala) since all of that area is inhabited by Maya people, who speak different versions of the Maya language. But last year, there was an incident in Chiapas, when a large contingent of farmers were displaced from their lands over some localized feud, and they too formed a caravan, but they had no place to go, they were just going in circles looking for a place to stay. And no one helped them, while the C.A. caravans were being feed and clothed and given medical treatment.

    Now, I want to be fair, and say that 1. not all of them are like that, many are grateful of the help they get; and 2. I am sure attitudes change once they are where they want to be. I understand they view México as an obstacle on their road to the promised land. But damn it, it is my obstacle.

    2) Would you recommend Mexico as a place to retire?

    I am moving back to my hometown of Mérida, Yucatán next year. My home town is a popular U.S., Canadian, Korean (go figure) expat destination for retirement, health care tourism, and now more working adults are moving there, since they can work U.S./Canada jobs via internet. Just rated the 2nd safest city in the American continent behind Quebec (missed on first because of traffic accidents). A bad year in the murder count in the entire State of Yucatán is a slow weekend in St. Louis (hyperbole, but 3 per 100,000 vs 21 per 100,000 last year, respectively). If you go downtown/south of the city, is México; you go north, it's reverse Miami :), everything is in English, and full of McDonalds, Costcos, Home Depots, etc.

    I'd say, the best Mexican towns for expats are Mérida, San Miguel de Allende in Guanajuato, and Ajijic in Jalisco. Mérida is close to the beach (like 15-20 min drive) and tropical, and like I said, you go north of the city and you feel you are back home :), and has daily non-stops to Miami and Houston. San Miguel is in central México and it is an artsy community (beautiful city). An Ajijic is more geared towards older senior citizens, and looks and feels like a retirement community. Last 2 are mountainous.

    There is no cartel presence in any of the 3.

    I personally wouldn't live anywhere else in México :)
     
    We still have asylum as a path, don't we?
    Technically it still exists, but as I said in the OP various times, this rule effectively denies asylum to the entire Northern Triangle, and those three countries are the ones whose citizens most seek it. That's why immigration attorneys call this rule Asylum Ban 2.0.
     
    Technically it still exists, but as I said in the OP various times, this rule effectively denies asylum to the entire Northern Triangle, and those three countries are the ones whose citizens most seek it. That's why immigration attorneys call this rule Asylum Ban 2.0.
    It doesnt ban asylum. If someone is refused asylum in their first country then they can apply to the US. They will have to use the same reason as they did in the first country, however. Which probably explains why they think it is essentially a ban
     
    Technically it still exists, but as I said in the OP various times, this rule effectively denies asylum to the entire Northern Triangle, and those three countries are the ones whose citizens most seek it. That's why immigration attorneys call this rule Asylum Ban 2.0.

    Do you have an idea of how many judges (ALJs?) we currently have handling the cases arising from the southern border migration?
    The number of DHS attorneys?

    Just to let you know up front, my concerns extend beyond just how we should process these claims, but I am concerned about the system being simply overwhelmed.

    I do appreciate your approach to the discussion. In my opinion, one of the problems we have had in this nation is a lack of an honest conversation. Too often any meaningful discussion is cut short by accusations of "you don't like brown people." That's a non starter if the goal is persuasion. And quite frankly, so are outrcries of "separated families" when the speaker does not take into account the reasons parents and children are seperated or that the practice did not start with the current administration.
     
    Did you see the skit? It's not about being full it's about the flow. And not being able to handle that flow. She had the boxes to store the chocolates, they were simply coming in too fast to handle.

    But thanks for attempting to put words in my mouth. :melike:

    The flow was too fast because the people in charge did not allocate resources to assist Lucy and Ethel in handling the flow. While they could have slowed things down or even stopped the flow of chocolate completely, there was still an issue in the lack of labor assigned to the task. Even with no more coming in, Lucy and Ethel alone were not enough to quickly and thoroughly handle the remaining chocolate awaiting attention.

    If the factory owner properly staffed the packaging department, the backlog of chocolate would never have happened in the first place and they could have sped the flow up even more than they did in the first place.
     
    The flow was too fast because the people in charge did not allocate resources to assist Lucy and Ethel in handling the flow. While they could have slowed things down or even stopped the flow of chocolate completely, there was still an issue in the lack of labor assigned to the task. Even with no more coming in, Lucy and Ethel alone were not enough to quickly and thoroughly handle the remaining chocolate awaiting attention.

    If the factory owner properly staffed the packaging department, the backlog of chocolate would never have happened in the first place and they could have sped the flow up even more than they did in the first place.

    I hope they spoke to their union rep and and a grievance is filed.
     
    I think a lot of people are conflating the illegal immigration issues and the asylum seekers. They are not one and the same.
     
    I think a lot of people are conflating the illegal immigration issues and the asylum seekers. They are not one and the same.

    They are not the same but they are definitely similar.

    How do you see them differently from the people coming here’s perspective? Or am I missing your point?
     
    Asylum seekers come here seeking protection from a political event or violent group. They desire the protection they believe the US government is best able to supply (as opposed perhaps to their own government, or the government of neighboring countries). Asylum seekers want to contact the government and claim asylum to remain in the US.

    Illegal immigrants come here seeking (mostly) jobs or a better life. They're not in fear for their lives but trying to better themselves, their family, or their situations. Some don't even come with the idea to stay permanently -- they want the work and the money, but not necessarily to stay forever. Illegal immigrants want to avoid the US government/authorities in order to remain in the US.
     
    Asylum seekers come here seeking protection from a political event or violent group. They desire the protection they believe the US government is best able to supply (as opposed perhaps to their own government, or the government of neighboring countries). Asylum seekers want to contact the government and claim asylum to remain in the US.

    Illegal immigrants come here seeking (mostly) jobs or a better life. They're not in fear for their lives but trying to better themselves, their family, or their situations. Some don't even come with the idea to stay permanently -- they want the work and the money, but not necessarily to stay forever. Illegal immigrants want to avoid the US government/authorities in order to remain in the US.
    It seems though that people - "conservatives" I guess - see the asylum process as pilling over into the "illegal" immigration process. Its the perceived abuse of the asylum process that is the real issue, right?

    I don;t really know the facts on it, so I am not advocating that this is "reality" - it is just that I hear people saying that the asylum process is used as a way for people to enter and stay when it is really an attempt or desire to emigrate.
     
    It seems though that people - "conservatives" I guess - see the asylum process as pilling over into the "illegal" immigration process. Its the perceived abuse of the asylum process that is the real issue, right?

    I don;t really know the facts on it, so I am not advocating that this is "reality" - it is just that I hear people saying that the asylum process is used as a way for people to enter and stay when it is really an attempt or desire to emigrate.
    "Perceived" abuse. "People saying"

    I understand fully that people can let their preconceived biases color their viewpoints on issues. If there is evidence of such abuse, I'm certain that facts can be provided by those who feel there is abuse.
     

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