Trump Indictment ( includes NY AG and Fed documents case ) (1 Viewer)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Former President D. Trump has been indicted by a New York Grand Jury. There will be much to talk about on this topic because this is just the first step in a lengthy process.
Possibly it is worthy of its own thread here rather than posting about Trump's indictment in already existing threads?
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This 3/31/23 story might get the ball rolling....
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Manhattan’s DA wanted a Friday Trump arrest. Trump’s team said no.

Secret Service needed more time to prepare, according to the ex-president’s legal team.

www.yahoo.com

 

[MT15]

@Snarky Sack .....IF....IF....ALL of what Trump is accused of is true, the consequences you suggest fall short of appropriate sentencing.

I assume he was being, well, snarky. If I read him correctly he was stating that Trump should serve as president for four years and donate his salary.

A Trump supporter will never agree that Trump did anything wrong in this case. Which is why people liken being a Trump supporter to being in a cult.

 

[MT15]

Attention please....let the record show that on the afternoon on Friday July 7th, @Saintamaniac gave my prior post a thumbs up reaction emoji

You know, most on this board don’t really care about anyone’s political leanings as long as they are sincere and not quoting lies and smears about the opposition, or ignoring facts that go counter to their beliefs. I’ve found you to be sincere myself.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

You know, most on this board don’t really care about anyone’s political leanings as long as they are sincere and not quoting lies and smears about the opposition, or ignoring facts that go counter to their beliefs. I’ve found you to be sincere myself.

Thank you. My feelings about you as well.

 

[Saintamaniac]

Attention please....let the record show that on the afternoon on Friday July 7th, @Saintamaniac gave my prior post a thumbs up reaction emoji

It's not the first time. I have no problem liking or agreeing with statements or ideas put forth that are based in reality. Here's some additional news. I gave a thumbs up to a post made by @Snarky Sack in another thread.

 

[DaveXA]

It's not the first time. I have no problem liking or agreeing with statements or ideas put forth that are based in reality. Here's some additional news. I gave a thumbs up to a post made by @Snarky Sack in another thread.

Indeed. Same.

 

[Snarky Sack]

So for you, the appropriate punishment for sharing national security secrets and obstruction of the Department of Justice is the same as aggravated jaywalking?

Oh wow, I said that? I better go delete that post right away!

 

[Snarky Sack]

And what would each of you suggest would be an appropriate sentence if Trump is actually guilty of all that he is accused of?

Is the death penalty on the table?

 

[MT15]

And what would each of you suggest would be an appropriate sentence if Trump is actually guilty of all that he is accused of?

Is the death penalty on the table?

Don’t be silly. MAGA fetishizes the death penalty. Most regular people do not.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

And what would each of you suggest would be an appropriate sentence if Trump is actually guilty of all that he is accused of?

Is the death penalty on the table?

House Arrest.

 

[Saintamaniac]

And what would each of you suggest would be an appropriate sentence if Trump is actually guilty of all that he is accused of?

If convicted on all charges, he is facing 75 years. He wouldn't get that because that represents the max sentence for each count. I would settle for 25-30 years. Essentially, right now, Trump is lying for his life because if he's convicted, he will be coming out of prison feet-first.

 

[superchuck500]

If they checked, why did they accept it? Wouldn't they say, "go back and get someone on record telling the answer to what we're asking." If the NBC description is correct, then it was nothing more than Bobb verifying that Corcoran told her something.

I don't see them able to finally "get Trump" on something that slim.

If Corcoran testifies that Trump told him to lie to Bobb, and that he did lie to Bobb, there may be a crime in that, you're the lawyer. I'll assume that what Corcoran will claim happened was a crime, since it's an important part of the case.

But how is the jury going to take that? I picture one of the Trump supporters on the jury saying "So, this guy admits that he lied and told another lawyer to lie. She did not lie, but now he's telling us that it was Trump who told him to lie? Why are we supposed to believe this admitted liar this time, when he's not even charged with this lie we're supposed to convict Trump for?

The petit jury is not like a message board, where they can just run all the Trump supporter out to achieve consensus.

I’m just explaining the allegations and the evidence - and gave that as a single example. And your illustration of how that evidence will be presented is completely wrong.

But you do your thing where you take isolate each individual instance, forget all of the other circumstances, mischaracterize evidence, to support some counter factual that it’s all flimsy and Trump is innocent. That’s fine, go for it.

 

[DaveXA]

And what would each of you suggest would be an appropriate sentence if Trump is actually guilty of all that he is accused of?

Is the death penalty on the table?

I would say whatever the average sentence for these type of crimes. I don't know what that is, but I'm guessing between 10 to 20 years in prison.

And while I'm not sure it can be offered, I'd be inclined to let him avoid jail if he pled guilty and agreed to not being allowed to run for federal office.

 

[coldseat]

And what would each of you suggest would be an appropriate sentence if Trump is actually guilty of all that he is accused of?

Is the death penalty on the table?

Whatever the jury decides that is within the law for the crimes that he is convicted of and is practical/doable given that Trump has a SS detail. I don't think the death penalty is on the table. Would likely be some type of home arrest. Although preferably not one of his estates, but a more basic home.

 

[coldseat]

I’m just explaining the allegations and the evidence - and gave that as a single example. And your illustration of how that evidence will be presented is completely wrong.

But you do your thing where you take isolate each individual instance, forget all of the other circumstances, mischaracterize evidence, to support some counter factual that it’s all flimsy and Trump is innocent. That’s fine, go for it.

Your response made me think of this meme.

 

[superchuck500]

And what would each of you suggest would be an appropriate sentence if Trump is actually guilty of all that he is accused of?

Is the death penalty on the table?

Federal charges have a sentencing schedule with factors for aggravating and mitigating factors. Judges have some discretion but it’s not complete.

Here’s an analysis for the charges Trump faces:

How Much Prison Time Does Former President Trump Face? Applying the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines

Calculating a potential prison sentence, with some caveats, in the case of former President Donald Trump's indictment.

www.justsecurity.org

 

[Snarky Sack]

I’m just explaining the allegations and the evidence - and gave that as a single example. And your illustration of how that evidence will be presented is completely wrong.

But you do your thing where you take isolate each individual instance, forget all of the other circumstances, mischaracterize evidence, to support some counter factual that it’s all flimsy and Trump is innocent. That’s fine, go for it.

Chuck, I don't know how you expect me to respond to a single example except by talking about that single example. I wouldn't think that you would need somebody else just telling you you're right all the time.

Is that how it works in court, the defense is not allowed to cross-examine the prosecution witnesses about each single item that's a testify to? If they did and were able to show the flaws in each of the single items, does the prosecutor say that's unfair you have to take the totality of the evidence into account?

 

[Snarky Sack]

Federal charges have a sentencing schedule with factors for aggravating and mitigating factors. Judges have some discretion but it’s not complete.

Here’s an analysis for the charges Trump faces:

How Much Prison Time Does Former President Trump Face? Applying the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines

Calculating a potential prison sentence, with some caveats, in the case of former President Donald Trump's indictment.

www.justsecurity.org

Interesting. I had been meaning to ask you if in federal criminal cases the judge or the jury decides the sentence.

So if the judge decides the sentence based on guidelines with not much discretion, my prediction would be that this would make it even less likely that a jury would convict. Suppose the jury were able to convict on the charges in which the prosecution presented strong evidence and hypothetically the defense did nothing to refute it. I think the holdouts on the jury would have been more likely to go along with guilty verdicts if they could also couple that with a light sentence not including any jail time.

Honestly you don't have to be a trump supporter to realize what could happen if Trump is actually put into prison when he is the choice of the majority of Republicans for president. I think that Trump opponents are caught up in a little bit of Hysteria and not really thinking this through if they are wanting him to actually serve prison time.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Your response made me think of this meme.

I like that meme, but for a different reason. To me it epitomizes the entitlement felt by people on the left when it comes to being shielded from speech.

If I'm doing me and you're doing you and I decide I don't like the way you're doing you and don't want to have to see it, it is for me to get away from you not for you to get away from me.