Thoughts and prayers... (1 Viewer)

[SystemShock]

So the discussion over at the mother board around the Nashville shooting has turned (yet again) into a discussion about religion and almost-politics (as much as one can keep politics out of a school shooting), with some people taking offense at a video posted on that thread mocking "thoughts and prayers", the usual sentiment from those who don't want to do anything about the problem, whether they themselves can enact laws or just vote for the people who can but don't.

As I stated there, the phrase "thoughts and prayers" is offensive to me. It only serves as comfort for the people who give the "thoughts and prayers", not the people who just had their 6 year old die in a panic in a hail of bullets on a midday inside their classroom; "thoughts and prayers" doesn't begin to comfort the people who just saw their child die horribly, it doesn't begin to account for a live cut so short and taking away everything that child would ever have or be.

"Thoughts and prayers" also serves as a cope out... "I don't have to do anything, let some other entity do something about it, not me; but I am comforted in that I passed the buck, I did a good thing"... ironically, this entity, the Christian god, is the god who loves us all so much, who created everything, who can do everything, yet allows the tragedy to happen.

But some expressed mocking "thoughts and prayers" is offensive to Christians; apparently faith, or believing in something unseen or that you have not even evidence of, is not to be mocked, it is to be respected.

Flat-Earthers have more evidence of the Earth being flat than anyone has of any metaphysical entity, and we mock flat-Earthers all the time. Why should it be different for the Christian myth? Or any such myth, really? Christians mock Hindus because Hindus believe cows are sacred, have no issue with drawing cartoons of Mohammed no matter the subject... so why should Christianity not be mocked?

And even more offensive than "thoughts and prayers", "God has a plan for you". Really? God's plan was that my child die in a hail of bullets in their classroom? Or that I develop cancer? Or that I lose my house and become homeless? Some plan... with love like that, who needs hate.

 

[JLL]

Idk dude. If you’re offended by prayers, perhaps you should talk to a higher authority. If you don’t like Christian’s, and how they surrender themselves to a higher power that’s understandable. As a Catholic I believe, all the money in the world is nothing compared to prayers. Jesus offered prayes for you while hanging on the cross. He saw the mockery, he saw blasphemy, the hate. But if you don’t believe all you’re left with is yourself. And your post sounds like you’re looking for answers. How do we have a discussion when the underlying feeling is offensive is in regards to this.

 

[SystemShock]

Idk dude. If you’re offended by prayers, perhaps you should talk to a higher authority. If you don’t like Christian’s, and how they surrender themselves to a higher power that’s understandable. As a Catholic I believe, all the money in the world is nothing compared to prayers. Jesus offered prayes for you while hanging on the cross. He saw the mockery, he saw blasphemy, the hate. But if you don’t believe all you’re left with is yourself. And your post sounds like you’re looking for answers. How do we have a discussion when the underlying feeling is offensive is in regards to this.

I should talk to a higher authority. That's funny.

it's not prayer on its own. You can pray until you are blue in the face, I don't care. It is the act of offering something useless in the face of a tragedy and pretending you did a noble thing or that you actually care, especially when it comes from the 2A cultists, whether they are politicians or private citizens, or the people who keep them in power.

All the money in the world is nothing compared to prayers... I guess if you are in the church business, prayers are really valuable, because you can turn them into money.

And no, I am not "looking for answers" LOL. If I were looking for answers, I'd certainly wouldn't look into ancient myths.

 

[DaveXA]

Tbh, that thread in the EE covered a lot of the bases. And T&P is more catchphrase than anything else to me. I personally think genuine thoughts and prayers are fine, but when it's used by politicians as an excuse not to do anything, it loses its meaning.

Its pretty simple imo, on my own I'll pray for whoever, whenever. When with someone, I'll only pray with/for someone with their consent.

It's not up to me to convince anyone of anything tho. We all gotta figure things out on our own.

 

[Echo]

Nothing wrong with giving your thoughts and prayers. I do it all the time.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Nothing wrong with giving your thoughts and prayers. I do it all the time.

Nothing wrong with it as long as you are also working to actively put a stop to the thing that elicited the thoughts and prayers in the first place. Otherwise, it is just an empty, meaningless gesture.

 

[Echo]

it is just an empty, meaningless gesture.

I don't speak for other people but mine are meaningful, sincere, and genuine.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I don't speak for other people but mine are meaningful, sincere, and genuine.

You can think that, yet they change nothing. That is the definition of meaningless and empty.

 

[SystemShock]

Nothing wrong with giving your thoughts and prayers. I do it all the time.

So you give nothing all the time, to make you feel better.

 

[JLL]

So you give nothing all the time, to make you feel better.

How can nothing make anyone feel better? I’m not following your logic.

 

[SystemShock]

How can nothing make anyone feel better? I’m not following your logic.

I thought the OP made it clear. "Thoughts and prayers" are an empty gesture that only serve to make the "giver" feel better, as if they actually did something, but the reality is, they did/gave nothing, and even worse, asked someone else to do something about it, a myth to boot.

 

[JLL]

Your statement is your opinion, nothing more. There’s nothing in it, other than despair.

Here a prayer I’ve said for you.


Oh, my beautiful Immaculate Mother Mary, Queen of sorrows, I beg of You, by the inexpressible agony You endured at the foot of the cross, to offer to the Eternal Father, in my stead, the Holy Face of Your Divine Son, my Jesus, covered with Blood, Wounds and other indignities heaped upon Him during His Sacred Passion, and beg of Him to grant the virtue of hope to System Shock.



Amen

 

[SystemShock]

Your statement is your opinion, nothing more. There’s nothing in it, other than despair.

The statements I made have nothing to do with hope, but simple truth. Giving your thoughts, what does that even mean? Especially when you don't even know the people affected or they knowing you? It is an empty gesture that, again, only makes you feel better. What do you think giving your thoughts does? It does nothing.

And the prayer part, you believe in an ancient myth (no different from the other myths you acknowledge as myths), I don't, so right off the bat it's meaningless to me, but even so, the sentiment is to have someone else do something about other people's suffering, which again, makes you feel better, but does nothing for the other people's suffering.

I'd add, how arrogant of you, to think your god doesn't know about people's suffering, and he did nothing to prevent their suffering, but now that you asked, well, he'll alter his plan ("he's got a plan for you!") for that person just because you asked.

Here a prayer I’ve said for you.

Oh, my beautiful Immaculate Mother Mary, Queen of sorrows, I beg of You, by the inexpressible agony You endured at the foot of the cross, to offer to the Eternal Father, in my stead, the Holy Face of Your Divine Son, my Jesus, covered with Blood, Wounds and other indignities heaped upon Him during His Sacred Passion, and beg of Him to grant the virtue of hope to System Shock.

And what do you think that's going to do, other than make you feel you did something "good"?
And a prayer to Mary? I'm not good enough for the big guy?

 

[Snarky Sack]

Some people say "hopes and prayers," after a mass shooting, and some people complain about the phrase "hopes and prayers," after a mass shooting. Neither accomplishes much as far as preventing more deaths in our public schools.

The one solution that should have no political opposition is hardening the schools. By that I don't mean having a cop standing around or sitting at a desk on their phone.

I happen to be a teacher at a Junior High, and we have an SRO on duty for about half of the school day, and at the next door school the other half. They regularly sit at a desk in front of a floor to ceiling window with three glass doors. That's about forty feet of glass open to the outside. They sit at the desk with their back to that. A shooter like the Nashville looney could take out the officer and gain access by simply shooting through that glass.

Send less equipment to Ukraine, and more to school districts and the police who protect them. Have one less Choir teacher, and one more armed guard. Forego the new plastic furniture, and install bulletproof doors in classrooms. Recruit parent volunteers to patrol the outside and inside of the school with radios to contact the officers and guards.

Any one of those accomplishes far more than either saying "thoughts and prayers" or expressing offense at the phrase "thoughts and prayers."

 

[SystemShock]

Send less equipment to Ukraine, and more to school districts and the police who protect them.

Do you think batteries if ABM's and medical equipment will prevent school shootings?

I don't know. The Uvalde police looked mightily well equipped.

Have one less Choir teacher,

And what kind of teacher are you? Why throw the choir teacher under the bus?

Any one of those accomplishes far more than either saying "thoughts and prayers" or expressing offense at the phrase "thoughts and prayers."

This happens to be the religion and philosophy board, when people discuss, well, religion and philosophy.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Do you think batteries if ABM's and medical equipment will prevent school shootings?

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I certainly didn't say "batteries if (of?) ABM's and medical equipment will prevent school shootings," so I don't think that.

I don't know. The Uvalde police looked mightily well equipped.

Yes, but they were not in the school. Airports don't wait until there is an active shooter and hope police will both arrive on time to do something and be willing to do something. Neither do courthouses, state capitols, our national capitol, nor police departments themselves. If you have to be buzzed in to visit a police station full of armed officers with vests, surely you should have to do so at a school for of children.

And what kind of teacher are you? Why throw the choir teacher under the bus?

Special education, specifically kids with behavioral disabilities. Choir teachers are awesome people, one in particular at my school. Point is something would have to be cut, and at my district there are two choir teachers in each junior high and several at the high school. My belief is that they do that to give them parity with band teachers, who really do need two teachers, since they are teaching brass, woodwind, and percussion, and one person cannot do that in five periods per day.

But your broader point is well taken. There are plenty of ways to cut besides culling teachers. Or just spend some more money, they don't hesitate to do so for a new stadium.

This happens to be the religion and philosophy board, when people discuss, well, religion and philosophy.

Sure, sure. I get that completely.

It's a valid debate for a message board, saying "hopes and prayers" vs. not saying "hopes and prayers." I would hope that leaders, sitting down to talk about how to make schools safer would not spend a lot of time making either point.

 

[bird]

I didn’t see this thread primarily because I don’t venture here much.

Snarky Ballzack is a fool for thinking that there ”hardening” schools is realistic. Other countries flat out do not have this problem. We have immature whack jobs collecting guns like trading cards all because “Freedumb”. Not to mention a SCOTUS that claims to have originalists ignoring the portion of the 2nd amendment they just didn’t like.

This country is in deep trouble.

 

[Huntn]

So the discussion over at the mother board around the Nashville shooting has turned (yet again) into a discussion about religion and almost-politics (as much as one can keep politics out of a school shooting), with some people taking offense at a video posted on that thread mocking "thoughts and prayers", the usual sentiment from those who don't want to do anything about the problem, whether they themselves can enact laws or just vote for the people who can but don't.

As I stated there, the phrase "thoughts and prayers" is offensive to me. It only serves as comfort for the people who give the "thoughts and prayers", not the people who just had their 6 year old die in a panic in a hail of bullets on a midday inside their classroom; "thoughts and prayers" doesn't begin to comfort the people who just saw their child die horribly, it doesn't begin to account for a live cut so short and taking away everything that child would ever have or be.

"Thoughts and prayers" also serves as a cope out... "I don't have to do anything, let some other entity do something about it, not me; but I am comforted in that I passed the buck, I did a good thing"... ironically, this entity, the Christian god, is the god who loves us all so much, who created everything, who can do everything, yet allows the tragedy to happen.

But some expressed mocking "thoughts and prayers" is offensive to Christians; apparently faith, or believing in something unseen or that you have not even evidence of, is not to be mocked, it is to be respected.

Flat-Earthers have more evidence of the Earth being flat than anyone has of any metaphysical entity, and we mock flat-Earthers all the time. Why should it be different for the Christian myth? Or any such myth, really? Christians mock Hindus because Hindus believe cows are sacred, have no issue with drawing cartoons of Mohammed no matter the subject... so why should Christianity not be mocked?

And even more offensive than "thoughts and prayers", "God has a plan for you". Really? God's plan was that my child die in a hail of bullets in their classroom? Or that I develop cancer? Or that I lose my house and become homeless? Some plan... with love like that, who needs hate.

Late to the discussion, but I’m with you.

Idk dude. If you’re offended by prayers, perhaps you should talk to a higher authority. If you don’t like Christian’s, and how they surrender themselves to a higher power that’s understandable. As a Catholic I believe, all the money in the world is nothing compared to prayers. Jesus offered prayes for you while hanging on the cross. He saw the mockery, he saw blasphemy, the hate. But if you don’t believe all you’re left with is yourself. And your post sounds like you’re looking for answers. How do we have a discussion when the underlying feeling is offensive is in regards to this.

It appears that you missed the point of the lead in post or at least part of it, not whether prayer is good or bad, but that it is used as a substitute to take action that makes a real difference. Example: Multiple children murdered by an armed child at a school. “Oh, thoughts and prayers!”