The Impeachment Process Has Officially Begun (1 Viewer)

[Andrus]

By Laura Bassett

After months of internal arguing among Democrats over whether to impeach President Donald Trump, the dam is finally breaking in favor of trying to remove him from office. The Washington Post reported that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would announce a formal impeachment inquiry on Tuesday, following a bombshell report that Trump illegally asked Ukraine’s government to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, one of his political opponents. (He essentially admitted to having done so over the weekend.)

“Now that we have the facts, we’re ready,” Pelosi said Tuesday morning at a forum hosted by The Atlantic. At 5 p.m. the same day, she was back with more. "The actions taken to date by the president have seriously violated the constitution, especially when the president says Article Two says I can do whatever I want," referring to the segment of the Constitution that defines the power of the executive branch of the government. Pelosi's message was that checks and balances of those branches are just as central to the Constitution. And one more thing: "Today, I am announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry," she said at a conference broadcast on Twitter by the Huffington Post. ...

Read the Full Story - InStyle

 

[Dadsdream]

But you don't actually believe he did that, or you don't believe it's worth investigating. I mean if all you have is Biden's son was on the board of directors of a company in Ukraine, and Biden was part of pressuring the president of Ukraine to fire their top prosecutor, that doesn't seem to meet the standard of evidence you seem to be holding up as necessary to even suspect someone of wrong doing, right?

I actually believe he's been involved in international influence peddling, yes . . . so was DJT . . . so were the Clintons . . . and on and on and on.

Do I expect any of them to be arrested and serve time for things that the average person would be thrown under the bus for? No.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I actually believe he's been involved in international influence peddling, yes . . . so was DJT . . . so were the Clintons . . . and on and on and on.

But you don't believe he was doing anything illegal, and worth investigating, right? Or to be a bit more precise, you don't think there's enough available evidence to warrant an investigation into Joe Biden, correct?

 

[bdb13]

Well, Jim, I believe all politicians are crooks and liars, so I will respectfully say that it's far-fetched to say Biden didn't do anything corrupt.
International influence peddling by a former VP to the benefit of his relatives is corrupt? Yes, yes it is.

I'll go with your "all politicians are crooks and liars" thing, but there are still certainly varying degrees of corruption. Are you saying that corruption is an unimpeachable offense, or is it that you do not believe that what Trump is specifically accused of rises to the level of impeachable?

 

[Dadsdream]

But you don't believe he was doing anything illegal, and worth investigating, right? Or to be a bit more precise, you don't think there's enough available evidence to warrant an investigation into Joe Biden, correct?

I'm cynical enough not to doubt that he was involved in international influence peddling, if anybody cares to investigate.
You think Chelsea Clinton got a 6-figure job with no experience because of her good looks?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I'm cynical enough not to doubt that he was involved in international influence peddling, if anybody cares to investigate.
You think Chelsea Clinton got a 6-figure job with no experience because of her good looks?

Right, but that isn't the question. You don't believe there is enough evidence to warrant an investigation into Joe Biden, right?

 

[Dadsdream]

I'll go with your "all politicians are crooks and liars" thing, but there are still certainly varying degrees of corruption. Are you saying that corruption is an unimpeachable offense, or is it that you do not believe that what Trump is specifically accused of rises to the level of impeachable?

I'm not saying any of that. I'm just having a casual conversation with an old friend.

 

[bdb13]

I'm not saying any of that. I'm just having a casual conversation with an old friend.

Ok.

 

[Dadsdream]

Right, but that isn't the question. You don't believe there is enough evidence to warrant an investigation into Joe Biden, right?

That's up to the investigators. I'm OK with it if they want to investigate Joe and Hunter. Have at it.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Isn't the "corruption" alleged with Biden a dime-a-dozen

I think no one, including Trump, believed that there was enough evidence to pursue an investigation into Joe Biden.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

That's up to the investigators. I'm OK with it if they want to investigate Joe and Hunter. Have at it.

Except they didn't, because there isn't enough evidence to warrant an investigation.

 

[dtc]

The self-righteousness is somewhat tiring.

I find the lack of concern for the clearly immoral behavior to so much more than tiring.

It's quite sad that damn near noone on the political right in this country seems to care about the cancer that lives in the White House. Were these alleged acts undertaken by a Democrat, oh we'd have hell to pay and even the stupid, baseless allegations about Biden's son being corrupt attract more attention than the POTUS lying with every breath.

 

[samiam5211]

I'm cynical enough not to doubt that he was involved in international influence peddling, if anybody cares to investigate.
You think Chelsea Clinton got a 6-figure job with no experience because of her good looks?

Do you think it was worth the justice department starting an investigation?

Do you think it is appropriate for the president to create an extra governmental channel to conduct such an investigation?

Do you believe that this would be an abuse if power?

Do you believe that it is possible for an abuse of power that violates no law to be an impeachable offense?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

If all it took for an investigation to be opened into a politician is having a close relative with a cushy job in an area that they have some influence over, then the investigations would never ever stop. Including with DJT.

And believe me, I'm more than ok with setting up rules to limit that sort of thing. But that isn't what DJT is going for, and it isn't what anyone on the right is going for either at the moment.

So again, if no one believes that there was enough evidence to investigate Joe Biden, including DJT, what was the purpose of DJT using the power of the presidency to pressure a foreign leader to work with his personal lawyer to make an announcement of an investigation of Joe Biden?

 

[Dadsdream]

Do you think it was worth the justice department starting an investigation?

Do you think it is appropriate for the president to create an extra governmental channel to conduct such an investigation?

Do you believe that this would be an abuse if power?

Do you believe that it is possible for an abuse of power that violates no law to be an impeachable offense?

Keep me straight here, did the Justice Department start an investigation? If they did, then Yes.
Is it appropriate for the president to create an extra governmental channel to conduct such an investigation? As president, he presides over the Justice Department and the State Department and can determine who is going to investigate what with regard to international arms treaties. Yes.
Is it an abuse of power? Again, the president has executive authority regarding international arms deals. No.
Do you believe that it is possible for an abuse of power that violates no law to be an impeachable offense? You can't move the goal posts. No.

Your turn, bro, same questions!

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Keep me straight here, did the Justice Department start an investigation? If they did, then Yes.
Did the president create an extra governmental channel to conduct such an investigation? As president, he presides over the Justice Department and the State Department and can determine who is going to investigate what with regard to international arms treaties. Yes.
Is it an abuse of power? Again, the president has executive authority international arms affairs. No.
Do you believe that it is possible for an abuse of power that violates no law to be an impeachable offense? You can't move the goal posts. No.

Your turn, bro, same questions!

The justice department did not start an investigation. Not enough evidence.

 

[Dadsdream]

The justice department did not start an investigation. Not enough evidence.

Long day. I used to know that.
If the Justice Department decides not to start an investigation, as Chief Executive, the president has the authority to overrule them and order it to be done. He can even fire the Attorney General who refuses to investigate and appoint one who will (yes, Senate approval is required, yada, yada, yada).

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Long day. I used to know that.
If the Justice Department decides not to start an investigation, as Chief Executive, the president has the authority to overrule them and order it to be done. He can even fire the Attorney General who refuses to investigate and appoint one who will.

So, if the President orders the Justice Department to do something, there is no standard needed? There is no due process needed as long as the President orders it?

Ie, if President Obama ordered the Justice Department to investigate the Donald Trump campaign just because he wanted it, there's no problem?

 

[MT15]

Long day. I used to know that.
If the Justice Department decides not to start an investigation, as Chief Executive, the president has the authority to overrule them and order it to be done. He can even fire the Attorney General who refuses to investigate and appoint one who will.

Even assuming you are correct, (and UTJ has already outlined the problems with what you said) Trump didn’t do any of that did he? Instead he sent his personal lawyer and two henchmen to Ukraine to try to strong arm the newly elected leader of that country into announcing a sham investigation. Oh, and to also intimidate the US ambassador and conduct a smear campaign against her for good measure.

Essentially he had a shadow state department operation run by Rudy and two Russian born weirdos.