The Capitalist End Game Engineered by the GOP (1 Viewer)

[Huntn]

The Capitalist End Game
Think about it, this is the “patriotic”, “traditional values”, “moral”, “Christian values”, “fiscal hawk” party who railed about National Debt in the 1990s and personal responsibility while robbing us blind. Their genius? Focused on whites, brought out the racist in us, pitting us against one another, preaching to us the virtue of “traditional values”, “fiscal responsibility”, LOL, fool’d ya white privilege types. What they were preaching “I got mine, I want yours” and you’re on the menu.

“The National Debt is Evidence of the Crime- The first shots were fired in 1981, when Republicans’ so-called supply-side tax cuts began a forty-five-year upward transfer of over $50 trillion in wealth that made billionaires fabulously rich while it hollowed out our nation’s Treasury. They stole $38 trillion from our government, and another $12 trillion (at least) from working class families via wage freezes and the destruction of unions.”


https://substack.com/@thomhartmann/...&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action

 

[TampaJoe]

Who wants to explain profit shifting to Joe?

Who wants to explain taxation to RobF?

 

[UriUT]

I think this hits on some issues but I think the beneficial impact of the pandemic on Austin gets way overblown. The city (as you must know) was years into a boom, fueled by Tech, well before that. If anything, I think the residual consequences of the pandemic were a net negative for the region.

It is congested here and I think a lot of people arrive and find out the Austin they picked to live in isn’t the same one they visited, or the utopia they learned about from social media influencers. I also think state politics has taken a toll on a lot of people, and turned others off completely. It’s not simply conservative, it’s far right radicalism and corrupt, pandering to Christianity, with a heavy assault on civil rights and public education.

Yeah, quite fair. I 35 was congested when I was there. I still have lots of friends there and I would say they'd agree with you about the current trajectory.

Yeah, tech was one of the industries that fueled Austin's growth while I was there. I have a college friend who founded one hosting company with tremendous value now. I knew he was special then.

In any case, I think what is the expectation from these "fleeing from the liberal hell hole of California types" and many vc is that austin would rival sf or surpass it. I thought we were high tech, but not in the vein of the sf/san Jose mode. What we re witnessing, is that for many transplants and companies, austin isnt quite what they expect. Plus I saw blurbs of unfulfilled expectations from the state government. High rises...I cant remember the exact number...has a 42% unoccupancy? I know when ut had that first realignment, I wanted pac bc of the cultural similarities. We were considered an island. I dont know what happened since.

Still, the point though is that just bc a state offers low taxes doesnt guarantee success of uprooting established companies from elsewhere. I dont remember the numbers....I posted an article specifically to oracle where they had the majority of their operation in California. They then moved the hq to Nashville bc of associated investments by Ellison.

 

[RobF]

Who wants to explain taxation to RobF?

You can do it! Start by explaining what exactly companies typically pay tax on, and whether that can be shifted from one region to another in any way!

 

[MT15]

Here’s 200

Major companies continue to relocate to Texas

Texas has become a popular destination for companies, with many relocating their headquarters to the Lone Star State. Here's the list.

www.businessinsider.com

South Florida’s Corporate Migration Wave (2024–2025) | MILLION | Redefine Lifestyle

Explore South Florida’s 2024–2025 corporate migration wave and what 30 major expansions mean for luxury real estate demand in Miami, Brickell, and Palm Beach County.

www.millionluxury.com

The first article is behind a paywall. Also it still isn’t a study - it’s anecdotal. The first part that was readable cited cost of living and special laws in TX catering to corporations. So since you brought it up - maybe you can quote the part that talks about taxes? It also says the rate has definitely tapered off since the period they are talking about.

Your second article is a booster type sales pitch for the South Florida region. The site tries to get me to book with an agent to view “luxury properties”. It mentions nothing about taxes nor does it limit itself to relocations. Its list (30) includes expansions of existing offices and opening of regional offices.

“Below is a curated list of 30 major corporations and high-profile firms that relocated headquarters, opened regional offices, or significantly expanded operations in South Florida during 2024 and 2025, underscoring the region’s long-term economic momentum and reinforcing its appeal to luxury real estate buyers.”

Got anything that resembles actual data? Or can you quote actual data from the first article? Not just or so and so relocated - but rates of going versus staying, reasons for relocation, etc.

 

[Sendai]

The first article is behind a paywall. Also it still isn’t a study - it’s anecdotal. The first part that was readable cited cost of living and special laws in TX catering to corporations. So since you brought it up - maybe you can quote the part that talks about taxes? It also says the rate has definitely tapered off since the period they are talking about.

Your second article is a booster type sales pitch for the South Florida region. The site tries to get me to book with an agent to view “luxury properties”. It mentions nothing about taxes nor does it limit itself to relocations. Its list (30) includes expansions of existing offices and opening of regional offices.

“Below is a curated list of 30 major corporations and high-profile firms that relocated headquarters, opened regional offices, or significantly expanded operations in South Florida during 2024 and 2025, underscoring the region’s long-term economic momentum and reinforcing its appeal to luxury real estate buyers.”

Got anything that resembles actual data? Or can you quote actual data from the first article? Not just or so and so relocated - but rates of going versus staying, reasons for relocation, etc.

Lone Star vs. Silicon Valley [Why Companies are Moving to Texas in 2024] – ARC Relocation

arcrelocation.com

https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/business/HQ_Relocations_Texas_Listing.pdf

Whole lot of California in that list

 

[MT15]

Lone Star vs. Silicon Valley [Why Companies are Moving to Texas in 2024] – ARC Relocation

arcrelocation.com

https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/business/HQ_Relocations_Texas_Listing.pdf

Whole lot of California in that list

CA hasn’t got the type of taxes we were discussing though. And taxes are listed as one of several reasons given for relocations in your sources.

You have some anecdotal evidence. Lists compiled by people who are touting TX, articles written by journalists. Not actual studies.

As the actual data says - there will be some relocations due to tax reasons. But in the two states that have enacted the types of taxes on high income and/or high capital gains- the type of taxes on high incomes that we have been discussing - there isn’t evidence of enough relocation to hurt the state. The net results of the high income / high capital gains taxes for the states were positive.

 

[TampaJoe]

You can do it! Start by explaining what exactly companies typically pay tax on, and whether that can be shifted from one region to another in any way!

Well companies pay tax on many things. You only consider income taxes and ignore all the other taxe and economic benefits a state or city gets from business. Things that don’t shift.

 

[Sendai]

CA hasn’t got the type of taxes we were discussing though. And taxes are listed as one of several reasons given for relocations in your sources.

You have some anecdotal evidence. Lists compiled by people who are touting TX, articles written by journalists. Not actual studies.

As the actual data says - there will be some relocations due to tax reasons. But in the two states that have enacted the types of taxes on high income and/or high capital gains- the type of taxes on high incomes that we have been discussing - there isn’t evidence of enough relocation to hurt the state. The net results of the high income / high capital gains taxes for the states were positive.

CA hasn’t got the type of taxes we were discussing though. And taxes are listed as one of several reasons given for relocations in your sources.

You have some anecdotal evidence. Lists compiled by people who are touting TX, articles written by journalists. Not actual studies.

As the actual data says - there will be some relocations due to tax reasons. But in the two states that have enacted the types of taxes on high income and/or high capital gains- the type of taxes on high incomes that we have been discussing - there isn’t evidence of enough relocation to hurt the state. The net results of the high income / high capital gains taxes for the states were positive.

Taxes are taxes. And California is planning on adding more.

“Why Are So Many Companies Leaving California?
So, what's really driving this corporate exodus? It's not just one single thing. It's a mix of financial pressures and operational headaches that have been building for years. When you look at them together, the picture becomes pretty clear.

The Tax Burden Is No Small Thing​

Let's talk about high taxes because they are a huge piece of the puzzle. California has one of the highest top corporate tax rates in the country at 8.84%. On top of that, it also has the highest top personal income tax rate, which climbs to 13.3%, directly hitting business owners and high-level employees.

This combination creates a heavy financial load for any business operating within the state. When you compare the high rate to states with zero personal income tax, like Texas or Florida, the difference is staggering. A report from the Tax Foundation consistently ranks California's tax climate among the worst in the nation for any business California considers operating in.

For larger companies, these savings can amount to hundreds of millions of dollars annually, making a move a fiscally responsible decision. The tax burden is often cited as a primary motivator for companies leaving the state.”

Why Are Major Companies Leaving California?

You've probably heard the whispers, maybe even seen the headlines. It feels like every day another big name is packing its bags. This growing trend of companies leaving California has many business owners asking the same question: Is the Golden State losing its shine? For decades, California was...

www.klw-law.com

And a wealth tax will drive out even more businesses.

 

[MT15]

And a wealth tax will drive out even more businesses.

Nobody has a wealth tax. And you are shifting the goalposts by quite a bit to now say - well all taxes have the same effect.

We are discussing a particular type of tax, not all taxes. And I and others presented studies of the effects of those taxes - which you didn’t even read if I had to guess.

You’re still posting opinions and lists of businesses compiled by boosters.

You can do better!

 

[Sendai]

Nobody has a wealth tax. And you are shifting the goalposts by quite a bit to now say - well all taxes have the same effect.

We are discussing a particular type of tax, not all taxes. And I and others presented studies of the effects of those taxes - which you didn’t even read if I had to guess.

You’re still posting opinions and lists of businesses compiled by boosters.

You can do better!

I’d say the list of businesses that moved to Texas isn’t an opinion.

 

[MT15]

I’d say the list of businesses that moved to Texas isn’t an opinion.

Reading comprehension. I said “opinions AND lists of businesses”

My goodness.

What you are touting isn’t a study that takes a comprehensive look at the situation and tries to figure out the effects of the sorts of taxes we were talking about in this discussion. There have been 3 studies posted in this thread, going from memory.

They all came to the conclusion that taxes like we were discussing - ones that kick in for very high incomes or for very large capital gains - didn’t dampen the business climate of the states that enacted them.

Did you read any of them?

 

[Sendai]

Reading comprehension. I said “opinions AND lists of businesses”

My goodness.

What you are touting isn’t a study that takes a comprehensive look at the situation and tries to figure out the effects of the sorts of taxes we were talking about in this discussion. There have been 3 studies posted in this thread, going from memory.

They all came to the conclusion that taxes like we were discussing - ones that kick in for very high incomes or for very large capital gains - didn’t dampen the business climate of the states that enacted them.

Did you read any of them?

“California's economic growth is slipping behind Texas as the Lone Star state draws corporate HQs and people”

“Since 2020, big-name companies and hundreds of thousands of residents have ditched California for Texas, and the Lone Star State's economic growth has surpassed that of its coastal counterpart.

California's economy, while still on the up and up, has grown "relatively slowly" in recent years, according to an October 2024 fact sheet from the Public Policy Institute of California, averaging an uptick of 2.3% annually from 2020 to 2023. That figure is down from a 3.9% average increase in California's gross domestic product in the prior four years, according to the nonprofit research institute.”

California's economic growth is slipping behind Texas as the Lone Star state draws corporate HQs and people

Texas' economy is growing faster than California's as major companies and residents leave the coast for the Lone Star State.

www.businessinsider.com

It’s a little damp. Could get damper.

 

[J-DONK]

“California's economic growth is slipping behind Texas as the Lone Star state draws corporate HQs and people”

“Since 2020, big-name companies and hundreds of thousands of residents have ditched California for Texas, and the Lone Star State's economic growth has surpassed that of its coastal counterpart.

California's economy, while still on the up and up, has grown "relatively slowly" in recent years, according to an October 2024 fact sheet from the Public Policy Institute of California, averaging an uptick of 2.3% annually from 2020 to 2023. That figure is down from a 3.9% average increase in California's gross domestic product in the prior four years, according to the nonprofit research institute.”

California's economic growth is slipping behind Texas as the Lone Star state draws corporate HQs and people

Texas' economy is growing faster than California's as major companies and residents leave the coast for the Lone Star State.

www.businessinsider.com

It’s a little damp. Could get damper.

Do you have a theory on why the other red states with similar economic policies aren't doing well?

Why are so many wealthy states blue? By GDP - only 3 of the top 15 producing states are red.

If these policies work, why so poor?

Heck, let's even bring in Florida. It has a higher population, but lower GDP output then New York.

 

[MT15]

“California's economic growth is slipping behind Texas as the Lone Star state draws corporate HQs and people”

“Since 2020, big-name companies and hundreds of thousands of residents have ditched California for Texas, and the Lone Star State's economic growth has surpassed that of its coastal counterpart.

California's economy, while still on the up and up, has grown "relatively slowly" in recent years, according to an October 2024 fact sheet from the Public Policy Institute of California, averaging an uptick of 2.3% annually from 2020 to 2023. That figure is down from a 3.9% average increase in California's gross domestic product in the prior four years, according to the nonprofit research institute.”

California's economic growth is slipping behind Texas as the Lone Star state draws corporate HQs and people

Texas' economy is growing faster than California's as major companies and residents leave the coast for the Lone Star State.

www.businessinsider.com

It’s a little damp. Could get damper.

Once again - you are shifting the goalposts. CA doesn’t have the type of tax we’re discussing = a tax that kicks in for high income or high capital gains. CA wasn’t one of the examples.

It’s really hard to have a discussion with someone who pulls this kind of stuff. You can carry on with whatever it is you think you are doing - but it isn’t part of the discussion that was being had here before you highjacked it.

Maybe you’re not capable of having a defined discussion?

 

[SystemShock]

It’s only a talking point if you are trying to discredit it. Ask yourself how much $$$ do need to live a good life. And as wealth is funneled into fewer and fewer hands, as more and more struggle, as infastructure breaks down, as the climate degrades, it is all driven by a for profit system that ultimately benefits a minority. So the answer is yes, anyone with more than $10m is a glutton, and although the system allowed them, it’s a broken system and the gains are ill gotten, if any value is placed on a vibrant, healthy economy, and avoiding the breakdown of civilization. I register in advance, your disagreement.

How much money one needs to live a "good life" is subjective.

Out of curiosity, why do you put the cap at $10M? Do you mean $10M in cash, or net worth?

"As wealth is funneled"... I find that a loaded term...

You are putting a lot of blame on businesses... now, I am not going to sit here and tell you every business is run in an ethical manner, and surely there are certain industries in the U.S. that need to be addressed, but this resentment you feel for entities that create jobs and generate tax revenue, and yes generate wealth not just for a few but for 1000's (if not millions), you have just created this boogeyman to hate.

Speaking of infrastructure and climate, I will remind you, though, there is other factors in that equation, such as consumerism, migration/population growth...

 

[J-DONK]

How much money one needs to live a "good life" is subjective.

Out of curiosity, why do you put the cap at $10M? Do you mean $10M in cash, or net worth?

"As wealth is funneled"... I find that a loaded term...

You are putting a lot of blame on businesses... now, I am not going to sit here and tell you every business is run in an ethical manner, and surely there are certain industries in the U.S. that need to be addressed, but this resentment you feel for entities that create jobs and generate tax revenue, and yes generate wealth not just for a few but for 1000's (if not millions), you have just created this boogeyman to hate.

Speaking of infrastructure and climate, I will remind you, though, there is other factors in that equation, such as consumerism, migration/population growth...

You can answer this if you approach it from the perspective of "At what point does added income stop contributing to overall happiness?"

There is research on that.

You then have a second question of should the goal of government be to provide as many of it's citiizens happy and content lives?

It's also a debate in really really bad faith to change the debate from attacking billionaires to businesses. If those businesses lack compeittion, and engage in monolopoistic patterns of behavior. There is no need to be a sycophant.

You really should read up on the gilded age, and why that was bad. It would give you better context on why your opinions are less then dogwater now.