Suppose Climate Change is real, but we can’t stop it (2 Viewers)

[samiam5211]

At some point even the Greatas of the world may have to admit that climate change is not something we can prevent. Whether or not it is human caused, there will be a point if no return.

Where is the point where humanity is better served by focusing resources on adaptation rather than prevention?

There is likely much overlap between prevention and adaptation.

One example of this might be the activists’ push against fossil fuels...

Maybe we should be trying use as much solar power as possible now to save fossil fuels for a time when we have a period of glaciation in an area where humans live today? Maybe we will need that oil and gas should there be a time when the Midwest is below freezing five months a year. This is not an uncommon situation in Earth’s relatively recent history.

I do believe that the climate is changing and that we will fail to stop it, and we are the ancestors of people who will have to grow their food in different regions from us and get their energy from different places.

The sooner humanity begins to diversify these necessities the better.

 

[RobF]

It’s a force that clearly exceeds human influence. Our influence is negligible.

I know what you think you're saying, but what you're actually saying is that you don't understand how human influence is so significant that it is in fact causing rapid climate change.

And you don't seem to grasp that you not understanding something isn't an argument.

Like, if someone doesn't understand that 2+2=4, and says, "basic mathematics is a subject beyond human understanding," two plus two would continue to be four regardless of that. Your lack of comprehension doesn't actually define reality. It only defines your inability to comprehend reality.

It's not an argument. It's just a display of ignorance.

 

[SystemShock]

What Florida looks like in the glacial and interglacial cycle. There have been 40 to 50 of these cycles in the last 800,000 years.

So we’re looking at an additional 20-30 foot sea level rise through the remainder of this cycle.

Climate Science Investigations South Florida - Impacts of Climate Change

These are forces beyond our control.

The title of the thread is

“Suppose Climate Change is real, but we can’t stop it”

I’m simply pointing out it is real and we can’t stop it.

We can't stop it, but climate change is not a force beyond our control: we have been accelerating this change for over 200 years, so surely we can influence it, and we surely can mitigate the damage by slowing it back down, and give us and nature time to adapt as much as possible.

Have you ever been to Japan? Tokyo has more than a dozen flood gates that serve as shields against floods caused by tsunamis. Those gates are not going to stop a tsunami from happening, but they will mitigate the damage a tsunami can cause to Tokyo.

 

[MT15]

It’s a force that clearly exceeds human influence. Our influence is negligible.

Bull shirt. Pure bull shirt. Your own sources say otherwise. You’re just not a serious person. At all.

 

[Sendai]

Bull shirt. Pure bull shirt. Your own sources say otherwise. You’re just not a serious person. At all.

Pretty sure my sources describe a long history of glacial and interglacial warming periods.

 

[Taurus]

The title of the thread is

“Suppose Climate Change is real, but we can’t stop it”

I’m simply pointing out it is real and we can’t stop it.

Then we'd better slam on the brakes to slow it.

We'd also better get cracking on what we're going to do with the millions of displaced people. Also how we're going to cope with losing virtually every single shipping port on Earth.

 

[Dragon]

Pretty sure my sources describe a long history of glacial and interglacial warming periods.

Pure deflection.

Carbon dioxide (CO₂) — is the most important long-term warming gas from volcanoes and Yes, climate changed naturally before when the earths crust were more active — often from volcanic activity. But those changes took thousands to millions of years. Today’s warming is happening in decades, and humans now emit over 100 times more CO₂ each year than all volcanoes combined.

 

[Sendai]

I know what you think you're saying, but what you're actually saying is that you don't understand how human influence is so significant that it is in fact causing rapid climate change.

And you don't seem to grasp that you not understanding something isn't an argument.

Like, if someone doesn't understand that 2+2=4, and says, "basic mathematics is a subject beyond human understanding," two plus two would continue to be four regardless of that. Your lack of comprehension doesn't actually define reality. It only defines your inability to comprehend reality.

It's not an argument. It's just a display of ignorance.

I’m saying our influence is negligible compared to the likely 20-30 ft sea level increase that will occur naturally in this interglacial warming cycle.

 

[RobF]

I’m saying our influence is negligible compared to the likely 20-30 ft sea level increase that will occur naturally in this interglacial warming cycle.

You're confused.

We know what you're saying. That's not the problem here.

We're telling you, definitively, why you're wrong. You're ignoring that entirely and repeating yourself. That's the problem here.

 

[MT15]

Pretty sure my sources describe a long history of glacial and interglacial warming periods.

Which is totally beside the point. They also say that man has greatly influenced this cycle. We have changed the natural cycle a great deal. Your own sources say that. For the third time - can you not understand that?

None of the sources you have shown have said what you are saying - that man hasn’t influenced the natural cycle. They, in fact, say the opposite. So you are possibly not showing us your true sources, or you have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe both.

 

[Sendai]

Which is totally beside the point. They also say that man has greatly influenced this cycle. We have changed the natural cycle a great deal. Your own sources say that. For the third time - can you not understand that?

None of the sources you have shown have said what you are saying - that man hasn’t influenced the natural cycle. They, in fact, say the opposite. So you are possibly not showing us your true sources, or you have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe both.

Our impact on the current warming cycle will be nothing compared to the long term natural warming that will see the 20-30 foot sea level increase that occurred in previous warming cycles.

And the next glacial period will change everything.

 

[Sendai]

You're confused.

We know what you're saying. That's not the problem here.

We're telling you, definitively, why you're wrong. You're ignoring that entirely and repeating yourself. That's the problem here.

So there haven’t been 40-50 inter glacial warming periods over the last 800,000 years with sea levels that are 20-30 ft higher than current levels. That, in those cycles, large parts of Florida aren’t underwater.

Our influences are insignificant by comparison.

 

[RobF]

So there haven’t been 40-50 inter glacial warming periods over the last 800,000 years with sea levels that are 20-30 ft higher than current levels. That, in those cycles, large parts of Florida aren’t underwater.

You're still confused. Everyone here is well aware of historical climate change. That is not the problem. You do not need to keep mindlessly repeating yourself.

Our influences are insignificant by comparison.

That is the problem. Now humanity is capable of pumping industrial quantities of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, and has done just that, with the effects we're seeing, our influences are undeniably not just significant, they're critical.

You appear completely incapable of comprehending this, but as already stated, your display of ignorance does not constitute an actual argument. It's just a display of ignorance.

 

[Dragon]

So there haven’t been 40-50 inter glacial warming periods over the last 800,000 years with sea levels that are 20-30 ft higher than current levels. That, in those cycles, large parts of Florida aren’t underwater.

Our influences are insignificant by comparison.

You are repeatedly refusing to respond to the actual man made changes that has happened over the last 200 + years. The level of CO2 in the atmosphere has risen sharply - not due to volcanic activity but due to humans burning fossile fuels. This is actual FACTS descibed by multiple scientists during the last 80 years. Even the fossile fuel industry has known this. The fossil fuel industry was aware of the risk of global warming from its products by the late 1950s — and clearly by the 1970s–1980s, based on their own scientists’ research.

1959 — Early warning to oil executives

• Physicist Edward Teller warned oil industry leaders that burning fossil fuels would increase atmospheric CO₂ and melt ice caps.
• This was at a symposium organized by the American Petroleum Institute.

1977 — Exxon’s internal scientific warning

• Senior scientist James F. Black briefed executives at Exxon that fossil fuel emissions could cause significant global warming.
• He reportedly said there was general scientific agreement on the effect.

1978–1982 — Detailed internal research

• Exxon conducted advanced climate modeling and CO₂ measurements.
• An internal 1982 report projected warming remarkably close to what later occurred.

Source: Inside Climate News series: Exxon: The Road Not Taken (2015) Los Angeles Times investigation (2015)

1980s — Industry-wide awareness

• The American Petroleum Institute and other industry groups circulated reports acknowledging climate risks.

 

[MT15]

Our impact on the current warming cycle will be nothing compared to the long term natural warming that will see the 20-30 foot sea level increase that occurred in previous warming cycles.

And the next glacial period will change everything.

You have shown no evidence of that. None. All of the sources you have shown us say the opposite. So unless you have something other than “trust me, bro” you richly deserve to be ignored on this subject. You evidently have zero evidence to back up your “feeling” on this.