States may move to keep Trump off the ballot based on 14th Amendment disqualification (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

Section 3 of the 14th Amendment:

There is a growing movement in some states to conclude that Trump is already disqualified under the 14th Amendment and they may remove him from the ballot. This would set-up legal challenges from Trump that could end up at the SCOTUS.

The 14A disqualification doesn’t have any procedural requirements, it simply says that a person that does those things can’t serve in those offices. It a state says it applies to Trump, it would then be on Trump to show that it didn’t (either because what he didn’t doesn’t amount to the prohibited conduct, or that president isn’t an “officer” as intended by the amendment).

States are in charge of the ballots and can make eligibility determinations that are subject to appeal - there is actually a fairly interesting body of cases over the years with ballot challenges in federal court.


More on the legal argument in favor of this:

The Sweep and Force of Section Three

Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment forbids holding office by former office holders who then participate in insurrection or rebellion. Because of a range

papers.ssrn.com

The Constitution Prohibits Trump From Ever Being President Again

The only question is whether American citizens today can uphold that commitment.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[CoolBrees]

This is Oregon's way of saying he will be removed if they let us.

I like having him on the ballot here. We stomp any R into the dirt in the general.

Besides, I want him to explain why he won't come here for the primary. What excuse he will use to dissuade from the fact he sent in Blackwater disguised as Feds and kidnapped citizens off the streets and he is a scared birch that wouldn't dare come face us.

 

[MT15]

One of the “democrats” behind the CO ballot case, lol

 

[SaintForLife]

One of the “democrats” behind the CO ballot case, lol

 

[Optimus Prime]

PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — A Maine judge on Wednesday paused an election official’s decision on former President Donald Trump’s ballot status to allow time for the U.S. Supreme Court to rule on a similar case in Colorado.

Trump’s lawyers appealed in state court when Secretary of State Shenna Bellows removed the Republican front-runner from the presidential primary ballot but then asked the judge to pause proceedings to allow the U.S. Supreme Court to rule on the Colorado case, which could render the lawsuit moot.

Superior Court Michaela Murphy denied Trump’s request to stay the proceedings, but she sent the case back to the secretary of state with instructions to await the outcome of the U.S. Supreme Court case before issuing a new ruling withdrawing, modifying or upholding her original decision.

In her decision, the judge said that the issues raised in the Maine case mirror the issues raised in the Colorado case before the U.S. Supreme Court. She wrote that her decision “minimizes any potentially destabilizing effect of inconsistent decisions and will promote greater predictability in the weeks ahead of the primary election.”…..

Maine judge delays decision on removing Trump from ballot until Supreme Court rules in Colorado case

A Maine judge delays a decision on removing Donald Trump from the ballot until the U.S. Supreme Court rules on a similar case in Colorado.

apnews.com

 

[MT15]

Thread on this case. There’s more on Twitter.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Twenty-five historians of the civil war and Reconstruction filed a US supreme court brief in support of the attempt by Colorado to remove Donald Trump from the ballot under the 14th amendment, which bars insurrectionists from running for office.

“For historians,” the group wrote, “contemporary evidence from the decision-makers who sponsored, backed, and voted for the 14th amendment [ratified in 1868] is most probative. Analysis of this evidence demonstrates that decision-makers crafted section three to cover the president and to create an enduring check on insurrection, requiring no additional action from Congress.”

Lawyers for Trump argue that the presidency is not an “office” as described in the 14th amendment, that only congressional action can stop someone from running, and that Trump did not incite an insurrection.


Trump was impeached in Congress (for the second time) for inciting an insurrection: the Capitol attack of 6 January 2021, an attempt to overturn defeat by Joe Biden now linked to nine deaths, more than 1,200 arrests and hundreds of convictions.…..

Amicus briefs allow interested parties to make relevant arguments. Earlier this month, nearly 180 Republicans joined a brief in support of Trump.

The 25 historians – among them James McPhersonof Princeton, the pre-eminent civil war scholar – pointed to 1860s congressional debate.

“Senator Reverdy Johnson of Maryland, a Democratic opponent of the 14th amendment, challenged sponsors as to why section three omitted the president. Republican Lot Morrill of Maine … replied, ‘Let me call the senator’s attention to the words “or hold any office civil or military under the United States”.’ Johnson admitted his error; no other senator questioned whether section three covered the president.”

The historians also cited Andrew Johnson, in 1868 the first president impeached, referring to himself as “chief executive officer”.

Pointing out that section 3 of the 14th amendment is self-executing, and that “no former Confederate instantly disqualified from holding office under section three was disqualified by an act of Congress”, the historians also noted that Jefferson Davis, the Confederate president, cited his own disqualification as reason an indictment for treason should be quashed.

“Contemporary information provides direct evidence of the enduring reach of the 14th amendment,” the historians wrote. “Congress … chose to make disqualification permanent through a constitutional amendment.

“Republican senator Peter Van Winkle of West Virginia said, ‘This is to go into our constitution and to stand to govern future insurrection as well as the present.’ To this end, the Amnesty Acts of 1872 and 1898 did not pardon future insurrectionists.”

The historians also said “adverse consequences followed” amnesty, many ex-Confederates winning office and “participat[ing] in the imposition of racial discrimination in the south that vitiated the intent of the 14th and 15th amendments to protect the civil and political rights of the formerly enslaved people.”

The historians concluded: “The court should take cognisance that section three of the 14th amendment covers the present, is forward-looking, and requires no additional acts of Congress for implementation.”

Some political and legal observers have suggested Trump should be allowed to run regardless of the constitution, because to bar him would be anti-democratic.
In a forthcoming article for the New York Review of Books, seen by the Guardian, Sean Wilentz of Princeton – an eminent historian not part of the supreme court brief – calls such arguments “risible”.

“By their reasoning,” Wilentz writes, “Trump’s misdeeds aside, enforcement of the 14th amendment poses a greater threat to our wounded democracy than Trump’s candidacy. In the name of defending democracy, they would speciously enable the man who did the wounding and now promises to do much more.”……..

US historians sign brief to support Colorado’s removal of Trump from ballot

Twenty-five civil war and Reconstruction scholars support invoking 14th amendment to bar Trump from ballot over January 6

www.theguardian.com

 

[SaintForLife]

Twenty-five historians of the civil war and Reconstruction filed a US supreme court brief in support of the attempt by Colorado to remove Donald Trump from the ballot under the 14th amendment, which bars insurrectionists from running for office.

“For historians,” the group wrote, “contemporary evidence from the decision-makers who sponsored, backed, and voted for the 14th amendment [ratified in 1868] is most probative. Analysis of this evidence demonstrates that decision-makers crafted section three to cover the president and to create an enduring check on insurrection, requiring no additional action from Congress.”

Lawyers for Trump argue that the presidency is not an “office” as described in the 14th amendment, that only congressional action can stop someone from running, and that Trump did not incite an insurrection.


Trump was impeached in Congress (for the second time) for inciting an insurrection: the Capitol attack of 6 January 2021, an attempt to overturn defeat by Joe Biden now linked to nine deaths, more than 1,200 arrests and hundreds of convictions.…..

Amicus briefs allow interested parties to make relevant arguments. Earlier this month, nearly 180 Republicans joined a brief in support of Trump.

The 25 historians – among them James McPhersonof Princeton, the pre-eminent civil war scholar – pointed to 1860s congressional debate.

“Senator Reverdy Johnson of Maryland, a Democratic opponent of the 14th amendment, challenged sponsors as to why section three omitted the president. Republican Lot Morrill of Maine … replied, ‘Let me call the senator’s attention to the words “or hold any office civil or military under the United States”.’ Johnson admitted his error; no other senator questioned whether section three covered the president.”

The historians also cited Andrew Johnson, in 1868 the first president impeached, referring to himself as “chief executive officer”.

Pointing out that section 3 of the 14th amendment is self-executing, and that “no former Confederate instantly disqualified from holding office under section three was disqualified by an act of Congress”, the historians also noted that Jefferson Davis, the Confederate president, cited his own disqualification as reason an indictment for treason should be quashed.

“Contemporary information provides direct evidence of the enduring reach of the 14th amendment,” the historians wrote. “Congress … chose to make disqualification permanent through a constitutional amendment.

“Republican senator Peter Van Winkle of West Virginia said, ‘This is to go into our constitution and to stand to govern future insurrection as well as the present.’ To this end, the Amnesty Acts of 1872 and 1898 did not pardon future insurrectionists.”

The historians also said “adverse consequences followed” amnesty, many ex-Confederates winning office and “participat[ing] in the imposition of racial discrimination in the south that vitiated the intent of the 14th and 15th amendments to protect the civil and political rights of the formerly enslaved people.”

The historians concluded: “The court should take cognisance that section three of the 14th amendment covers the present, is forward-looking, and requires no additional acts of Congress for implementation.”

Some political and legal observers have suggested Trump should be allowed to run regardless of the constitution, because to bar him would be anti-democratic.
In a forthcoming article for the New York Review of Books, seen by the Guardian, Sean Wilentz of Princeton – an eminent historian not part of the supreme court brief – calls such arguments “risible”.

“By their reasoning,” Wilentz writes, “Trump’s misdeeds aside, enforcement of the 14th amendment poses a greater threat to our wounded democracy than Trump’s candidacy. In the name of defending democracy, they would speciously enable the man who did the wounding and now promises to do much more.”……..

US historians sign brief to support Colorado’s removal of Trump from ballot

Twenty-five civil war and Reconstruction scholars support invoking 14th amendment to bar Trump from ballot over January 6

www.theguardian.com

That reminds me of the 51 intelligence officials that said Hunter's Laptop was Russian disinformation.

It’s been two years since 51 intelligence agents interfered with an election — they still won’t apologize

They had decided Trump was so terrible he had to go and they thought they had the right to make that decision for the American people.

nypost.com

 

[cuddlemonkey]

That reminds me of the 51 intelligence officials that said Hunter's Laptop was Russian disinformation.

It’s been two years since 51 intelligence agents interfered with an election — they still won’t apologize

They had decided Trump was so terrible he had to go and they thought they had the right to make that decision for the American people.

nypost.com

They didn't say that, actually. What they said was this:

"We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement—just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case."

 

[cuddlemonkey]

They didn't say that, actually. What they said was this:

"We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement—just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case."

@SaintForLife Care to admit that your statement was incorrect?

 

[MT15]

@SaintForLife Care to admit that your statement was incorrect?

That’s nearly every statement he makes. I’ve not seen anyone under so many delusions as this guy.

 

[LA - L.A.]

That reminds me of the 51 intelligence officials that said Hunter's Laptop was Russian disinformation.

It’s been two years since 51 intelligence agents interfered with an election — they still won’t apologize

They had decided Trump was so terrible he had to go and they thought they had the right to make that decision for the American people.

nypost.com

The NY Post is corporate media. I thought you didn't listen to or trust anything corporate media says.

 

[efil4]

The NY Post is corporate media. I thought you didn't listen to or trust anything corporate media says.

Only when it conforms with his belief.

Seriously. That's the only time.

 

[MT15]

They didn't say that, actually. What they said was this:

"We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement—just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case."

And we still have suspicions that the Russians played a significant role in the Hunter case. Rudy was meeting with Russian intelligence operatives in Ukraine, and suddenly there’s extra stuff on “the laptop” that wasn’t there when it was dropped off at the repair shop. And Rudy had the copy of the files where the extra stuff showed up.

SFL and his ilk are just big mad that the political dirty trick by Bannon, Stone and Rudy didn’t work.

 

[MT15]

Back to the actual topic of this thread:

 

[MT15]

Add Illinois, this time a Republican official.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

The 25 historians – among them James McPherson of Princeton, the pre-eminent civil war scholar – pointed to 1860s congressional debate.

Off-topic, but McPherson is my idol. Had the opportunity and pleasure to interview him to finish my final historiography paper back in the 90s. One of the highlights of my collegiate career (only second to meeting John Hope Franklin).

 

[MT15]

 

[MT15]