Religion has no place in politics (1 Viewer)

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Saintamaniac

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With religion being a personal issue with no proven right or wrong answer, IMO, it has no place in politics. By choosing one, you instantly alienate a segment of the population. And for that reason, the only way to fully satisfy everyone, is to not have it part of politics. I would think that this would pretty much end this discussion and negate the need for this sub forum.
 

Lazybones

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With religion being a personal issue with no proven right or wrong answer, IMO, it has no place in politics. By choosing one, you instantly alienate a segment of the population. And for that reason, the only way to fully satisfy everyone, is to not have it part of politics. I would think that this would pretty much end this discussion and negate the need for this sub forum.
Does this also go for Muslims and people of the Jewish faith?

Do you think “no religion” may also alienate people?

Our nation was built partially on freedom of religion. To say that our government has to operate without religion seems like an impossible task, and contrary to the founding of our nation.
 
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Saintamaniac

Saintamaniac

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Does this also go for Muslims and people of the Jewish faith?

Do you think “no religion” may also alienate people?

Our nation was built partially on freedom of religion. To say that our government has to operate without religion seems like an impossible task, and contrary to the founding of our nation.
The whole point of my post was my belief that religion has no place in politics. You responded to my post so I can only take it that your questions were directed at me.
You asked "Does this also go for Muslims and people of the Jewish faith?" My response is does what go for Muslims and Jews?
You asked "Do I think no religion may alienate people?" My response is yes....just as being baptist, catholic, satanist (it is a religion believe it or not), scientology (again, a religion), buddist, etc and any other thing that is considered a religion. No one owns a patent on being the right one so therefore, it has no place in politics IMO.
I don't think you follow what I posted because in no way did I say anything that would restrict anyone's religious freedoms. Our government currently works without religion so I reject your premise. Our nation was founded partially on the principle that the government could not and would not infringe on anyone's right to practice any religion that they choose. The fact that one group tries to impart their religion and beliefs into the government is precisely why it has no place in politics.
 

Lazybones

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It was in response to you. I appreciate your opinion.

The point I was making is that it is impossible to take religion out of politics, because it is impossible to take people out of politics.

People who are devout in their faith, whether that faith is Jewish, Muslim, Catholic etc will surely be influenced by their religious. As will the people with no belief system.

It’s a nice catch phrase, but impossible in a democracy.
 
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Saintamaniac

Saintamaniac

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It was in response to you. I appreciate your opinion.

The point I was making is that it is impossible to take religion out of politics, because it is impossible to take people out of politics.

People who are devout in their faith, whether that faith is Jewish, Muslim, Catholic etc will surely be influenced by their religious. As will the people with no belief system.

It’s a nice catch phrase, but impossible in a democracy.
My point is that religion should never have entered politics in the first place. I don't want someone who is a devout Satanist making laws that impact me no more than I want someone that is a devout Scientologist making laws that impact me. Laws and policies should be written and enforced devoid of religious influence. And that is why I feel that religion has no place in politics. It's a personal choice and I don't want someone's personal choice impacting my freedoms under the law.
 

Brennan77

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The idea that religion is by nature relative to the believer is somewhat novel. It's a modernist notion that religion has nothing to do with truth and only to do with subjective sentiment. This is largely not a workable world view.

The founding principles of the United States at the very least agreed upon certain philosophical presumptions with theological implications. It's the basis, for example, by which we can claim individual dignity and rights. For the sake of discussion, perhaps it'd be useful to differentiate between establishment of particular religious organizations (catholic, etc) and the philosophical underpinnings of society that may touch upon theological realities.
 

SystemShock

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Do you think “no religion” may also alienate people?
It doesn't alienate me :hihi:

Our nation was built partially on freedom of religion.
I don't know about that. The people who came from England were very intolerant of other religions. There is a reason why they were called puritans.
 

SystemShock

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My point is that religion should never have entered politics in the first place. I don't want someone who is a devout Satanist making laws that impact me no more than I want someone that is a devout Scientologist making laws that impact me. Laws and policies should be written and enforced devoid of religious influence. And that is why I feel that religion has no place in politics. It's a personal choice and I don't want someone's personal choice impacting my freedoms under the law.
You can't fully separate religion from politics, simply because all religions have defined philosophies or at the very least some sort of behavioral code, and people adhered to a religion will follow those philosophies and that code to a certain degree, will will influence how people vote, being Joe Voter or Joe Congressman.

Perhaps it'll happen one day; we won't see it, though... Saying that religion should never have entered politics in the first place is a nice sentiment. However, religions have been a part of humanity since humans became humans (or not long thereafter), and they have been used to control the masses and as a form of government in on its own all throughout human history.

Now, I get what you are saying... put in a very simplistic way, you don't want to hear someone say "my god says so, so let it be the law of the land". I don't want to hear that either. But you won't stop things like Christians or Muslims or Jews from voting against same sex marriages because it goes against their holy books. Not until they learn the truth :hihi:
 
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wardorican

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In an abstract way, it's kind of silly to try to say Religion has no business in politics. A person's religious beliefs also shape their views on laws, morality, kindness, humanity, duty, hard work, etc.

So, while a specific religion has no place in politics, religious ideals always have.

We can argue that being kind to each other isn't necessarily religious, I'd agree. However, it also is a religious idea. Taking care of the poor, etc are all parts of religion in politics (and in some areas, trying to be removed). Tithing, charity, duty, honor..

I'm not sure the Civil Rights movement would have happened without Dr. King's ability to push the 'moral majority' into action; seeing this unfair, mean, and hateful way people were being treated.

it's also backfired.. like prohibition.

Then you have this "heretical" version of religion being thrown around where people "believe in God", but don't practice anything. They aren't taught anything. So, it just better allows them to justify their crappy behavior without a Shepard to guide them. All though, I will point out that some smaller, or individual religious groups are nutty.

Religion is as much a culture, as anything in the USA.
 

Brennan77

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What “theological realities” are those?
It's in the sentence that precedes it. And it's in morality that is understood through natural law since Plato and Aristotle. Things have a nature and a purpose, including ourselves. That nature is founded and sustained through a reality that transcends all else.

In other words...
“We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”

You can't remove the theological element without undermining the rest of it. You can't remove the universal and objective (self evident) part of it either.
 

V Chip

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You can't remove the theological element without undermining the rest of it. You can't remove the universal and objective (self evident) part of it either.
But one certainly can.

Just because people at the time believed something to be self-evident does not mean it is a truth or reality. At the time, it went without saying that women were not included in the “created equal” part, and definitely not people of color. We had to expressly amend our Constitution to reflect those truths once our society evolved enough to see them.

One definitely does not need religion or religious belief to believe in human rights or equality for all, so I’m still not certain what “theological realities” there are. Maybe you just mean “realities.”
 

SystemShock

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It's in the sentence that precedes it. And it's in morality that is understood through natural law since Plato and Aristotle. Things have a nature and a purpose, including ourselves. That nature is founded and sustained through a reality that transcends all else.

In other words...
“We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”

You can't remove the theological element without undermining the rest of it. You can't remove the universal and objective (self evident) part of it either.
There is nothing objective about that passage.
 

Zombiewoof

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And there you have a religion in politics discussion and a reason for the sub-forum. :ezbill: It may not be heavily used or visited, but those are things we can deal with down the line.
 

MLU

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As long as "faith" remains a major tenant in religion, it has no business in arenas if critical thinking like science and politics. People are certainly free to think what they wish in regards to the deity of their choice, but the basis for decision-making should not be left to "faith".
 

Lazybones

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As long as "faith" remains a major tenant in religion, it has no business in arenas if critical thinking like science and politics. People are certainly free to think what they wish in regards to the deity of their choice, but the basis for decision-making should not be left to "faith".
I don’t know if it is that simple. If you (not you literally) oppose the death penalty and abortion based on your religious beliefs, how is that wrong? The public will vote you in or out based on your representation and the laws you enact and uphold.

In the above scenario, you personally may not agree with those policies and vote against them. I’m not sure I see this as an issue. Ones personally beliefs will always influence them and the things they do. ALWAYS!
 

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