Ongoing discussion of SCOTUS cases (4 Viewers)

[MT15]

With the increased scrutiny due to recent revelations in the press I thought maybe we can use a SCOTUS thread. We can discuss the impending Senate investigation and the legislation proposed today by Murkowski and King in the Senate that will formalize ethical guidelines.

We can also use this thread to highlight cases that possibly don’t deserve their own thread, like the following.

I saw this case today, and I cannot believe the US Government is allowed to do this. Unreasonable search and seizure? The examples he gives in the rest of the thread are just sickening:

 

[LA - L.A.]

Trump will claim anything and everything he did or will do should the stupid electorate vote him in again are official acts. This will result in literal years of lawsuits including more SCOTUS cases with the claims that the SCOTUS cannot determine what is and isn’t an official act.

This is Nixon and the “if the president does it, it is legal” bullschlitz on steroids.

Once again, this SCOTUS is aiming to be the worst court ever.

The 6 Heritage Foundation justices have already achieved the status of the most dangerous justices ever. I'm not going to put any of this on the Supreme Court or Jackson, Sotomayor or Kagan. This falls squarely on the shoulders of the 6 Heritage Foundation justices. They weren't hand picked by the Heritage Foundation and some put onto the court by hook and crook just for shirts and grins. They were jam packed into this court to deliver exactly what they are now openly and boldly delivering to the corpo-christo-fascist, and some are literally laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I will say though that SCOTUS wasted a lot of time with the ruling. They could and should have rejected the case. The ruling didn't change anything, so I'm not sure why they wanted to review it.

To set a precedence with the language that they did. The same reason that Thomas included comments about same sex marriage in Dodds. They are planting legal bombs all over the place for them to detonate later.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Lost in all of this…

The one case that would seem to not be affected is the Mar-A-Lago documents case. After all, the crime Trump is accused of committing is refusing to return documents. That occurred after his term ended, so he was not president, and therefore has no immunity.

But…wait…there’s more.

Currently Trumps team is arguing to the judge that the Special counsel is not legal since he wasn’t approved by the senate. This is something that has been tried dozens of times before, and the courts have always dismissed such claims.

BUT…

Clarence Thomas writes a concurring opinion to this SCOTUS opinion on presidential immunity, and what does he say on the very first page?



So, Thomas goes out of his way to give Canon the go ahead to say that the Special counsel is illegitimate, and dismiss the case.

The flip side is that I would assume that would also mean the dismissal of all charges and convictions against Hunter Biden since his special counsel must also be illegal.

Like I said previously, the 6 Heritage Foundation justices have been putting language in all of their rulings that are legal time bombs to be detonated later. All of the 6 Heritage Foundation justices are acting in bad faith and intentionally stripping away the protections of the rights of the majority of us. We need to all open our eyes to that right now are we are going to be in lethal trouble.

 

[Lapaz]

I know Judge Chutkin has to rule on what actions are considered official acts, so can he fix this ruling? If not, can congress pass laws limiting the executive branch that would be constitutional?

 

[LA - L.A.]

And if he loses that appeal won't he just try to get back in front of the Supreme Court again?

Why didn't/wouldn't SCOTUS just rule on this now? "These acts are official, these acts are not"

It seems too open ended and ambiguous to me

TRUMP: Do I have immunity for the acts I committed?

SCOTUS: You have the same immunity as any other government official

The ambiguity is the main feature, it's not a bug. They've been making ambiguous rulings that when used as precedence will make it impossible to know what is and isn't allowed which create an anything goes environment.

The 6 Heritage Foundation justices know exactly what will result from their rulings, and it's exactly what they want to create and it's exactly what they were jam packed onto the court to create.

 

[LA - L.A.]

They were actually terrorists though. If you're a citizen in another country planning to attack the US, you're a valid target. I don't think it opens any other doors though. What makes you think that?

Who decides who's a terrorist and who isn't? When you find the answer to that question, you'll see the nightmares this ruling opens King King sized doors to.

 

[LA - L.A.]

It feels like we are in a bizzaro world and all of these little things keep piling up. Before we know it, America will look like 1930's Germany.

That's the main feature, it's not a bug, and we are a hell of a lot closer than way too many people want to allow themselves to see.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Good luck AOC, hope you somehow succeed

Her standing up and speaking out is very important, even if she doesn't succeed.

You have no chance of winning the lottery if you don't buy a ticket.

No leader of any movement against corruption ever likes their chances of success, but they are determined to give it their best effort. If that keeps happening, someone eventually succeeds.

I don't think I have any chance of significantly influencing the outcome of the election, but I'm giving it my best effort. If enough of us do that, we can collectively have a very significant outcome on the election.

People need to treat Biden winning this election as a matter of life and death, because if Trump wins, it will lead to deaths of an unconscionable number of innocent people. That's not hyperbole or rhetoric, that's just fact.

Believe these arseholes when they openly and boldly tell us exactly what they will do if Trump wins. They ain't joking, no matter how much they may seem or pretend to be. Their smiles and chuckles are them gloating, not them joking. They are laughing at us for what we are about to let them do to us. It's what sadistic sociopaths do. They get off on knowing the destruction and devastation they are about to inflict on the people sitting across from them. It's Ted Bundy smiling right up to and through raping and killing an innocent and unsuspecting person.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I truly believe our country is terminally lost beyond repair. The right wing MAGA slippery slope has led us into an abyss we will not be able to ever recover from. If Trump wins in November, that seals the deal.

And Americans think things are bad now if you go by the polls .... . Best buckle up buttercups.

We can and will recover as long as the majority of us don't give up and surrender as individuals. This election is not an abstract exercise in political philosophy. Elections have consequences and the consequences of this election are a literal matter of life and death, so we individually need to treat this election like we are literally fighting for our lives, the lives of the ones we love and the lives of innocent strangers.

 

[LA - L.A.]

hmm maybe time to call federalist society judges terrorists then

I think the best way for Biden to take advantage of this, if he's going to, is to use whatever federal and national resources he needs to protect everyone's right to vote without asking, knowing or caring how they will vote.

• Put federal law enforcement and national guards people at every polling place in the country to prevent voter intimidation.
• Give transportation to everyone that requests transportation to vote.
• Help anyone who needs help registering to vote whatever help they need.
• Station 24 hour security details at every ballot drop off location from when ballots can be dropped off through when they can't be anymore.
• Provide transportation to anyone who asks for transportation to drop off their ballots, especially in Texas.
• Station heavy security details 24 hours at every place ballots are counted during the entire count process protecting the people counting and the ballots when stored.
• Provide personal security details for every person who performs any role in the voting and vote counting process to make sure they and their loved ones are safe.
• I'm sure there are things I'm missing, but I think I've made my point.

Trump has been screaming that elections are not secured and rigged and he's going to scream that again this year. So Biden should lean into that and use every federal resource he has available to help anyone, who wants to vote and has a legal right to vote, be able to safely vote, and to protect all the people who play a role in making our elections possible. Use this ruling to break any laws that keeps the president from protecting and assisting voters with a legal right to vote and everyone who helps make elections possible. Declare it as an official act because of imminent threat to national security due to an imminent threat to the election and according to the 6 Heritage Foundation justices Biden's intentions and whether or not he violates any laws is irrelevant.

While he's at it, designate and detain anyone who tries to block his actions in court as suspected domestic courts and send them to Guantanamo, torture free, until after the election is certified. Do the same to anyone who challenges him on doing that. Find another place if Guantanamo gets too crowded. If someone wants to start a shooting fight over, let them eff around and find out, and better for that to happen under Biden's administration than possibly under Trump's. They want a police, then let's take the police state to them. They want a fight, the let's take the fight to them. If the majority of voters want to vote for Trump, then let them. We'll at least know at that point what we're up against. If Trump voters feel intimidated and don't go vote, well that's their damned choice and their damned problem, now isn't it?

The only way to stop bullying is to stand up firmly against it. You don't bully back, you just stop taking their shirt. The same is true of the corpo-christo-fascist. We stop taking their shirt without inflicting the same oppression on them as they would do on us. Use this bullshirt immunity ruling from the 6 Heritage Foundation justices to put them in their damned place and to keep the election accessible and safe for all voters with a legal right to vote and all of those who make the election possible, regardless of who they vote for. Let the Trump and his cultist Republicans whine about how it's election corruption, they are going to whine about election corruption no matter what, so screw'em.

I fully support Biden using this absurd ruling the 6 Heritage Foundation justices to strenghten and fortify our democracy and our democratic principles, I do not support him using it to do the things that fascists and other flavors of authoritarians do, including harming or imprisoning Trump. I know it's tempting, I mean like awfully damn tempting, but it's not right and if Trump can win a free, open and uninterfered with election, then Trump is not the real problem. The real problem is the majority of voters and making Trump go away does not get rid of that problem.

/rant mode

 

[LA - L.A.]

Yeah, agencies running roughshod with impunity...

That's a lie and it never happened.

...the ineptitude of congress.

That['s another lie. This isn't about any ineptitude on Congress's part. Congress was wise enough to know that with both the complexity and complicated world of regulations, they and the courts can't foresee problems before they come up and they can't respond quickly once they do. So in order to better protect people in a more timely manner, Congress created the system that gave agencies that have the expertise and the manpower need to react quickly, flexibly and adaptively to the constant barrage of new threats from corporations have and will hurt people and the environment in their obsessive unquenchable thirst for profits.

Why do you hate people and the environment so much?

Eliminating Chevron now lets lower federal courts have the flexibility to deal with faulty or onerous agency regulations.

This is another lie. This allows a judge in a lower court who has no expertise or experience with an industry decide how the industry is regulated. A lot of theses judges have been jam packed into the lower courts by the same Heritage Foundation that jam packed 6 of their justices onto the Supreme Court.

This whole thing is designed to allow courts to completely eliminate the enforcement of regulations, not to "deal with faulty or onerous regulations."

The case at hand could have been dealt with simply, with a judge saying you can have monitors on boats but the boats aren’t paying for them.

You're shoveling more bullshirt lies, son. And you also gave yourself and the whole agenda away. You just old us what this is designed to do with the bold part.

You know that your so called "pragmatism" has the practical real world effect of no monitors on boats which means on regulatory oversight at all, because the fascists Republicans are never going to budget for paying for regulators because they don't want any regulations. This is tyranny my a minority made up of fascists and tou damn well know that. That's what you all want, for there to be no more regulators which means no more regulations.

Keep on shoveling bullshirt lies my friend, because the more you shovel the more you give away the playbook. And the more you give the rest of us an opportunity to help other see through the bullshirt lies and read the playbook you're calling plays from.

 

[LA - L.A.]

No, that's entirely separate and Congress still has the power to impeach the President.

Any president could now designate anyone that would vote to impeach him a terrorist and have them disappeared, I mean detained, indefinitely without a right to due process.

Who's going to vote to impeach a president after that happens to just one Congressman.

You're still thinking under the old rules, the rules have changed. By the way, the 6 Heritage Foundation justices clearly said that an act breaking a standing law does not make it an unofficial act. That means as long as it's declared an official act and done like an official act, then a president can break any law they want with immunity.

 

[LA - L.A.]

The six Justices are out of their freaking minds. They are giving this man a total green light.

Would some one please help me out here. I don't see and don't know what Orin Kerr is referring to with this:

And as there have been many dozens of people who have pointed out in prior threads that Trump presumably said "by who," not "by whom," yes, I agree.

 

[LA - L.A.]

That's definitely going to get litigated regardless. It's clearly not an official act because it violates the Constitution, so I don't see it holding up, but I wouldn't put it past this SCOTUS to agree with Trump's legal team. We'll see.

Fortunately, I don't see any language were the 6 Heritage Foundation justices said that an act is official even if violates the Constitution. They did say that about laws, but not the Constitution.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Someone on CNN (don’t know who) made an interesting point

That this immunity ruling could actually help

As in “Holy Shirt, Democracy is really on the ballot!” and the choice is either President Biden with immunity or President Trump with immunity and which president we’d be more comfortable having it and which America we want to live in

Everyone, and I mean everyone including all of us here, need to bang the hell out of that drum as loud as we can every chance we get starting Sept 13th. We don't want to exhaust ourselves and that message before voters start voting. The earliest voting starts on Sept 20th.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Hey, that would be hilarious actually. Be ironic that SCOTUS be on the wrong end of that one. Heh.

I don't want this to happen, but if we're going to go HAM, then let's go full HAM.

Designate all 6 Heritage Foundation justices as terrorist and detain them indefinitely in some unknown location without due process and in complete isolation. Treat them humanely, but far from lavishly.

Then let everyone in Congress know you want the 6 justices impeached and removed form the court and you want 6 justices you appoint confirmed to the Supreme Court within a month. You let everyone in Congress know that anyone who does anything to keep this from happening will have the opportunity to break bread with the 6 missing judges for a very, very long time.

Then after Congress impeaches and confirms the 6 new justices. I let every Republican in Congress and running in this election know that they either resign from their seat and/or their race today giving any reason other than being threatened in any way by anyone, or they will be breaking bread with the 6 missing justices for a very, very long time. I also tell that if any single one of them spills the beans or even hints at the beans to anyone or if the word gets out in any way at all, then every single one of them will be joining the 6 missing justices for the rest of their lives.

Then the new court can hear and rule on challenge after challenge on everything decided exclusively by Heritage Foundation hand picked justices.

Oh, and you never release anyone that you sent to the cornfield and you destroy all records of where they are at. It's strictly a one way ticket with no possibility of return. Think of it as the ultimate time out for adults behaving like very bad children.

I don't want anything like that to happen. I'm just saying if you want Biden to go all in without killing anyone, that's how you go all in without killing any one.

 

[LA - L.A.]

The problem is that it may help Biden, but with this ruling, I think it is not a question of IF a president will have an opponent assassinated, but WHEN. Trump is the immediate danger, but there will be others now that the Pandora’s box is open. Someone will test it. They could test it after impeachment is OBE.

In no reality or alternate reality is Biden having Trump assassinated. That's not who or who Biden is, even if he could get away with it.

Daddy Dick Chaney is another story entirely. The thing is, if Daddy Cheney has Trump sent to pasture, no one will ever know. It'll look like an accident or natural causes that looks entirely like a result of Trump's lifestyle choices and without any evidence of foul play what so ever. Never thought I might be tempted to root for the Penguin, but I never thought we'd be right here were we are.

 

[bird]

Just a thought…

A POTUS will ask his staff to prepare a list of potential SCOTUS nominees which they then do.

The Federalist Society is not a government agency. Thus, imo, they are a lobbying group. Therefore they must be treated as a lobbying group. Perhaps they already are.

That being said, they are radically different than, say the Chamber of Commerce, in that they are lobbying for appointment of people to be a part of a branch of government. And since the appointment of federal judges is a lifetime appointment (it isn’t really but nobody has had the guts to establish what “good behavior” means) they are, in essence, establishing control of a significant portion of the government outside of the entire democratic process.

Therefore, imo, the Federalist Society must be prohibited from supplying names to a POTUS unless those names are published in the media including detailed backgrounds on all of them. This is, imo, a logical extension of the claims made by McConnell that the people should have a voice in choosing SCOTUS justices.