News NY AG sues Trump and Trump Org for Financial Fraud (Update: Fraud verdict with $454M judgment)) (2 Viewers)

[wardorican]

Figured he has two major legal things going, this should get its own focus.

 

[MT15]

It might have been Mar-A-Lago, lol

 

[MT15]

I don’t think this is the flex Trump thinks it is. Just because the Saudis are willing to purchase him isn’t a blank check for him to lie about the worth of his properties.

 

[MT15]

Lol

 

[fooferdoggie]

It’s not like he was subtle about it - I saw where he inflated one property’s value by 1200%. That’s not a typo.

one thing consistent about trump he is not a subtle liar.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Lol

of course SA would buy from him I mean we are not talking any connection or anything. butt Biden and china right?

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Corporate lending is heavily regulated, especially in New York where the numbers involved are very large. There are all sorts of compliance issues and borrowers have to sign sworn (I.e. under penalty of law) financial statements. The lenders rely on this system to manage loan risk and the greater financial system depends on this regulated loan risk to avoid broader systemic damage. The AG is the enforcement agency.

This is a civil compliance action for fraud - the submission of fraudulent financial statements in order to obtain lending. Actual injury to the lender isn’t required, it’s a systemic protection for the greater financial system. Putting everything on a “no harm no foul” basis effectively permits false financial statements in lending, which injects substantially more risk into the system.

"Actual injury to the lender isn’t required,"

So I understand.

What I don't understand is why the lenders weren't aware that he was inflating his property. It seems an awful lot of people were aware that he was a fraud. In other words, why were they loaning him that much money?

 

[superchuck500]

 

[MT15]

"Actual injury to the lender isn’t required,"

So I understand.

What I don't understand is why the lenders weren't aware that he was inflating his property. It seems an awful lot of people were aware that he was a fraud. In other words, why were they loaning him that much money?

Most US banks were wise to it and wouldn’t loan to him. Hence Deustch Bank and Russian mobsters and more recently the Saudis.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Corporate lending is heavily regulated, especially in New York where the numbers involved are very large. There are all sorts of compliance issues and borrowers have to sign sworn (I.e. under penalty of law) financial statements. The lenders rely on this system to manage loan risk and the greater financial system depends on this regulated loan risk to avoid broader systemic damage. The AG is the enforcement agency.

This is a civil compliance action for fraud - the submission of fraudulent financial statements in order to obtain lending. Actual injury to the lender isn’t required, it’s a systemic protection for the greater financial system. Putting everything on a “no harm no foul” basis effectively permits false financial statements in lending, which injects substantially more risk into the system.

Thanks

That all makes sense

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Most US banks were wise to it and wouldn’t loan to him. Hence Deustch Bank and Russian mobsters and more recently the Saudis.

Yeah? I haven't followed it closely enough to know who exactly was giving him the loans.

Anyway, just PLEASE get him.

 

[superchuck500]

Yeah? I haven't followed it closely enough to know who exactly was giving him the loans.

Anyway, just PLEASE get him.

It's a significant ruling - it basically disbands Trump Org (and its various subsidiaries) in New York. That's why Trump and sons are so pissed.

They will appeal and should probably get a stay of the order pending appeal, but from what I have read of the decision (and definitely do not take Trump and sons claims of the facts as true - they're obviously not), it seems fairly well presented. And appellate courts must take a fairly deferential approach to the trial judge's findings of fact (whereas findings of law are easier to overturn).

But if it remains in place, it's a huge loss for them and a tremendous burden to have to reorganize (likely in Florida) and move those assets and properties around, likely have to liquidate a lot of it.

 

[superchuck500]

but from what I have read of the decision (and definitely do not take Trump and sons claims of the facts as true - they're obviously not), it seems fairly well presented.

For example:

 

[CoolBrees]

There is a major, though not primary (personal liability and shared risk) reasons why becoming a public traded corporation is done.

And Trump just stepped in it.

By essentially getting kicked out of New York, he will have to divest in those addresses in NY.

With a Corp. it's a shell game. Just spin them over to a subsidiary or joint venture that is under a different corporate structure, reorganizing to make the subsidiary the parent. This happened to Miller when InBev bought them while already owning Anheuser Busch. So the spun up Molsen and made the new company Molson MillerCoors. And nothing else changed.

But when you are privately held, everything is under one unbrella - there is no subsidiary to spin up or down to. So you either have to bring in a Holdings firm to acquire it and negotiate clawback, or you have to liquidate outright. Either option is terrible for the asset owner.

 

[J-DONK]

I don’t think this is the flex Trump thinks it is. Just because the Saudis are willing to purchase him isn’t a blank check for him to lie about the worth of his properties.

If it was Americans talking about any other country we would call this a bribe.

 

[MT15]

If it was Americans talking about any other country we would call this a bribe.

Later I read the judge actually wrote in a footnote that Trump’s claim about the Saudi’s was less a statement about canny investing and more about influence peddling. I love that judge.

 

[MT15]

 

[MT15]

 

[MT15]

Edit: other posters provided the answer. A corrupt Bill Barr.