Audio NPR: The Takeaway - Trump Unveils So-Called Peace Plan for the Middle East 2020-01-29 (1 Viewer)

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wardorican

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https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/takeaway/episodes/the-takeaway-2020-01-29 Audio here.

This is more about the first part of the audio show. There are other topics in this episode, but I want to focus on the Israel / Palestine "peace plan".

The part that gets me is that Palestine wasn't involved with the plan, so to me, it's already doomed to fail. The US has historically sided with Israel, but with some limits. i.e. we tend to want them to ease up on settlements, launching rocket attacks, etc. It essentially abandons the idea of a real two state solution.

This screams of a political move, since Netanyahu may no longer be PM soon. It's now or never.
 

reubenray

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Why do our Presidents (past, current & future) waste their (and U.S.) time and money trying to get peace in the Middle East. There will never be peace in the Middle East.
 

MT15

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I think it has to do with looking at how, in the past, a regional conflict erupted into a World War. Twice. And the desire to not have that happen again. 🤷‍♀️

But I get the frustration.
 
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wardorican

wardorican

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Why do our Presidents (past, current & future) waste their (and U.S.) time and money trying to get peace in the Middle East. There will never be peace in the Middle East.
I think it's a fair point. It's mostly because we've always propped up Israel against the rest of the Region.

However, if you're going to go for peace, real peace, you have to get both sides to the table. I do understand that the Palestinian leadership is weak, or non-existent now. That's a big problem.

I can understand that their solution is to just go all in with Israel's more right wing wishes. I think it will lead to conflict though, or, maybe pacification through force. But that rarely lasts.

Calling it a peace plan or deal is just contortionist re framing though.
 

Archies Ghost

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I think it's a fair point. It's mostly because we've always propped up Israel against the rest of the Region.

However, if you're going to go for peace, real peace, you have to get both sides to the table. I do understand that the Palestinian leadership is weak, or non-existent now. That's a big problem.

I can understand that their solution is to just go all in with Israel's more right wing wishes. I think it will lead to conflict though, or, maybe pacification through force. But that rarely lasts.

Calling it a peace plan or deal is just contortionist re framing though.
Since the proposed plan includes a Palestinian state with a capitol in East Jerusalem, what needs to be changed in order to make it a “real” one?
 
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wardorican

wardorican

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Since the proposed plan includes a Palestinian state with a capitol in East Jerusalem, what needs to be changed in order to make it a “real” one?
Listen to the audio. It's just the first 12 min or so.

I'd have to summarize later.
 

Archies Ghost

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Listen to the audio. It's just the first 12 min or so.

I'd have to summarize later.
I have listened to it. It boils down to "Trump and Israel proposed a plan that does not contain every Palestinian demand, so it is invalid".

The Palestinians are invited to negotiations, not a signing ceremony.
 

cuddlemonkey

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I have listened to it. It boils down to "Trump and Israel proposed a plan that does not contain every Palestinian demand, so it is invalid".

The Palestinians are invited to negotiations, not a signing ceremony.
Trump spit in the eye of the Palestinians. Why should they participate in a process when the supposed neutral arbiter is clearly in the corner of one side?
 
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wardorican

wardorican

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I have listened to it. It boils down to "Trump and Israel proposed a plan that does not contain every Palestinian demand, so it is invalid".

The Palestinians are invited to negotiations, not a signing ceremony.
They haven't been a part of any negotiations since 2017, I think.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/palest...istrations-middle-east-peace-plan-11580240580

Throughout its interactions with the Trump administration, the Palestinian leadership hasn’t wavered on core demands: East Jerusalem as their capital and an independent state in West Bank and Gaza.

Following the Trump administration’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, the Trump administration sparked more Palestinian ill will with other measures.

In August 2018, the Trump administration cut much of its aid to the Palestinians, including funds for the United Nations’ Refugee Agency. It also cut more than $200 million in annual aid for basic services to the Palestinians including health care and education. For decades the U.S. has been the largest aid donor to the Palestinians. Now it gives some security aid and contacts are still kept through the CIA, Mr. Abbas has said.

A month later, the U.S. closed the Washington office of the Palestine Liberation Organization, which had served as Ramallah’s diplomatic representation to the U.S. In October, the U.S. closed its consulate in East Jerusalem that had functioned essentially as an embassy to the Palestinians.

Despite these moves, which were seen as punitive measures designed to get the Palestinians to resume talks with the Trump administration, the Palestinians dug in.

When the U.S. released the economic portion of the peace plan in June 2019, the Palestinian leadership boycotted the event. The plan called for $50 billion in investments over 10 years for the Palestinian territories and neighbors, but Palestinian leadership called the plan a bribe for giving up their political rights they believed would be missing from the political plan.

Mr. Abbas on Tuesday night continued that criticism, saying, “Jerusalem is not for sale.”
I believe the Annexation plan violates UN resolutions and some international law about settling occupied land.

I think Trump and Kushner have changed the framework from a peace plan (Oslo 1993) negotiations, to something more like a negotiating a surrender.

No border control. Israel owns every single border and waterway. Disconnected areas. Only a partial west bank. No golan heights (not sure if that's an area they were still fighting for). Gaza is all broken up.

And I've heard conflicting things about East Jerusalem. And I only see the Overall Israel map Trump tweeted. I haven't seen a detailed Jerusalem map.
 

Taurus

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Why do our Presidents (past, current & future) waste their (and U.S.) time and money trying to get peace in the Middle East. There will never be peace in the Middle East.
That's the plan. Right, DD?

Evangelicals (IE: Republicans) want peace for Israel. Whether the Palestinians live, die or go bowling is of no interest to them.
 

Dadsdream

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That's the plan. Right, DD?

Evangelicals (IE: Republicans) want peace for Israel. Whether the Palestinians live, die or go bowling is of no interest to them.
Insert the links to my relative's stories about the rebuilding of the temple, the Second Coming and the Rapture, eh, Taurus? :hihi:
Let's see, the sarcastic, snotty thread title comes direct from the WNYC (New York Public Broadcasting) website. Figures.
Their page also features a feed about "Pronoun Bias" with regard to the presidency.
Hard pass on both podcasts. :9:
 
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Taurus

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Insert the links to my relative's stories about the rebuilding of the temple, the Second Coming and the Rapture, eh, Taurus? :hihi:
Let's see, the sarcastic, snotty thread title comes direct from the WNYC (New York Public Broadcasting) website. Figures.
Their page also features a feed about "Pronoun Bias" with regard to the presidency.
Hard pass on both podcasts. :9:
Nope. I'm referring to one of your more cogent takes on ME policy from way back in the day. Your position was that we don't want and haven't wanted peace and stability in the Middle-East since the OPEC embargo. We want them fighting each other, fighting us, fighting someone so they never get together to exercise that kind of power again.

When you look at American policy in the region through that lens, suddenly it all makes sense.
 

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