Matthew 16:26 ... continued (1 Viewer)

[SystemShock]

But there is a darker, more extreme side to evangelicals embracing Trump, which goes beyond sitting judges on the SC, as the judgement they are seeking is not of this Earth.

These are the people who literally want to see the world burn, the people who can't wait for the so called End of Times prophesies to come to pass, even if they force them to pass - which, BTW, defeats the purpose of a prophesy: one cannot predict Betty is going to bake a cake, and upon hearing this, prod Betty to bake a cake, and when Betty bakes a cake, proclaim a prophesy fulfilled.

Whether you want to go with Isaiah (King Cyrus-type who will restore and rebuild Jerusalem, ergo push to put US Embassy there), Daniel (stubborn- like-a-goat king of the West who will make his nation great at time of the end), Revelations (the name Trump symbolizing the trumpet sound that will bring about the Great Tribulation), or maybe all of them, in their minds, these are signs that the End of Times is within their grasp, and they are trying desperately to be the catalysts of their rise to the kingdom of heaven and the demise of humankind.

This is the mentality that has given rise to QAnon, a fascist, biblical apocalyptic cult who denounce the so called Deep State, a cabal of pedophile Satan worshipers who control the world, and only the enlightened come to realize this. They think Trump is bringing about yet another Great Awakening, and will unleash The Storm on all of their perceived enemies, which in turn will bring about an age of peace and prosperity - the 7 years of plenty.

Some of that may not make sense even within a biblical context, but when has not making sense stopped cults?

 

[JLL]

De die autem illo vel hora nemo scit, neque angeli in cælo, neque Filius, nisi Pater.

But as for that day and that hour you speak of, they are known to nobody, not even to the angels in heaven, not even to the Son; only the Father knows them.

MARK 13:32

 

[SystemShock]

De die autem illo vel hora nemo scit, neque angeli in cælo, neque Filius, nisi Pater.

But as for that day and that hour you speak of, they are known to nobody, not even to the angels in heaven, not even to the Son; only the Father knows them.

MARK 13:32

One interesting thing about that passage, it says that Jesus doesn't know; yet, according to the concept of the holy trinity, he should. The Holy Spirit should know as well.

But then, the concept of the holy trinity was created to circumvent the 2nd commandment.

 

[Booker]

That passage from Mark was likely written as a response to the failures of the pronouncements of earlier Christians that the end times were imminent. Paul is considered to have been writing in the 50's, and his letters make clear he expected Jesus' coming during his lifetime. Mark, on the other hand, is considered to have been written no earlier than the 70's, by which time Paul and his contemporaries and predecessors would have all been dead. Undoubtedly there were converts who called them out for being wrong and bailed, and 'Mark' is likely responding to them here.

Otherwise, as SS notes, the interesting thing about the quote isn't the part about the end times that generally gets the most emphasis. Here, in what is recognized as the first Gospel, the author clearly differentiates the Son from the Father, as the concept of the trinity hadn't yet developed. Likewise, Paul's letters show early Christians distinguished the two from each other, and Mark's Gospel is considered to preach Pauline Christianity, so it's not surprising that he would agree on this point.

 

[JLL]

Y’all gonna making me go read St Augustine of Hippo who can can provide wisdom on the matter. Always a good thing.

 

[Saintman2884]

That passage from Mark was likely written as a response to the failures of the pronouncements of earlier Christians that the end times were imminent. Paul is considered to have been writing in the 50's, and his letters make clear he expected Jesus' coming during his lifetime. Mark, on the other hand, is considered to have been written no earlier than the 70's, by which time Paul and his contemporaries and predecessors would have all been dead. Undoubtedly there were converts who called them out for being wrong and bailed, and 'Mark' is likely responding to them here.

Otherwise, as SS notes, the interesting thing about the quote isn't the part about the end times that generally gets the most emphasis. Here, in what is recognized as the first Gospel, the author clearly differentiates the Son from the Father, as the concept of the trinity hadn't yet developed. Likewise, Paul's letters show early Christians distinguished the two from each other, and Mark's Gospel is considered to preach Pauline Christianity, so it's not surprising that he would agree on this point.

Well, for 3-4 centuries, for many Christian communities all across the Roman Empire, even among sects like the Gnostics, who had a very unorthodox, spiritual dualistic view of Christ, his ministry and the larger spiritual ramifications surrounding his crucifixion(Christ secretly and invisibly ascended to Heaven immediately after Judas betrayal and the Christ who was killed was an evil imposter, and that the God of the Old Testament and New Testament weren't the same God) didn't recognize the Cross as an official symbol until the Arian sect came along in the 5th century CE. The main, recognizable symbol for early Christians was a fish IIRC.

Many of Christ's Apostles, Apostles Paul and Luke were what we called millenialists---they believed that Christ would return and establish his kingdom on Earth within their lifetimes. Many of the first and second generations of early Christian communities held on fervently to this belief, likely due to resentment and perceived abuse and periodic persecutions in certain, local provinces by Roman authorities like in ca 113 CE when Roman governor Pliny the Younger complained to Emperor Trajan about local Christian communities refusing to engage in Roman imperial divinity cult or Roman religious festivals, and Trajan responded with sort of "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

 

[Saintman2884]

Y’all gonna making me go read St Augustine of Hippo who can can provide wisdom on the matter. Always a good thing.

You do know St. Augustine actually was a pagan and a devout follower of the Isis "mystery cult" while a young man growing up in Egypt? City of God, City of Man has been used even by theologians and political philosophers as an eminent early Christian church father essentially advocating for separation of church and state.

 

[Booker]

Well, for 3-4 centuries, for many Christian communities all across the Roman Empire, even among sects like the Gnostics, who had a very unorthodox, spiritual dualistic view of Christ, his ministry and the larger spiritual ramifications surrounding his crucifixion(Christ secretly and invisibly ascended to Heaven immediately after Judas betrayal and the Christ who was killed was an evil imposter, and that the God of the Old Testament and New Testament weren't the same God) didn't recognize the Cross as an official symbol until the Arian sect came along in the 5th century CE. The main, recognizable symbol for early Christians was a fish IIRC.

Many of Christ's Apostles, Apostles Paul and Luke were what we called millenialists---they believed that Christ would return and establish his kingdom on Earth within their lifetimes. Many of the first and second generations of early Christian communities held on fervently to this belief, likely due to resentment and perceived abuse and periodic persecutions in certain, local provinces by Roman authorities like in ca 113 CE when Roman governor Pliny the Younger complained to Emperor Trajan about local Christian communities refusing to engage in Roman imperial divinity cult or Roman religious festivals, and Trajan responded with sort of "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Yeah, Paul is very explicit that he expects Jesus to literally come shooting through the clouds any moment -- see 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.