Law Enforcement Reform Thread (formerly Defund the Police) (2 Viewers)

[First Time Poster]

So I got busy the other day with the intention to revisit this topic and answer some of the responses put forward but I realized the thread was deleted. But, I felt we had good dialogue happening before I left so I wanted to restart the topic to get the conversation going again. We started some dialogue about it on the liberal board but I feel this topic transcends party lines so I'm making a MCB thread. Post #2, or my next post, is the post I made on the liberal board when asked to elaborate how I felt.

 

[coldseat]

I read there was a witness that heard them announce themselves, and this happened just after midnight, so most people were asleep. Also, while it may be legal to shoot people inside your house, I think it is wonton disregard for life to do so. I wouldn't start shooting without knowing who I'm shooting. I would tell them to stop or I will shoot. Realistically, Walker didn't ask for them to ID themselves, and Walker said they were aggressively banging on the door, so they didn't immediately break-in. I don't blame Taylor, but I do blame Walker for starting the shootout. I also blame the cop that was shooting from the outside, and he was the one charged. Whether the cops should've been there to search the house is a different matter. I think it was wrong for them to go there in the middle of the night, but once Walker started shooting, he made a fatal error. I don't think there is evidence of a cover-up. That is conspiratorial. The cops made mistakes, but the fatal mistake was Walker's.

You're really stretching to twist the facts in this case to fit your chosen narrative. There AG claims that there was one witness who claims that police announced themselves once. That hasn't been corroborated by independent reporting and AG hasn't released any information as to who that witness was. There are at least 10 people on record that live at the apartment complex that did hear the police bang on the door, but never head them identify themselves.

Also, it doesn't matter if somebody else heard police identify themselves. Taylor and Walker never did hear them. They where the ones who's apartment is being broken into. If they don't hear them, what does it really matter?

In addition. Walker asked them several times to identify themselves. Your claim is just wrong! They did not identify themselves, they banged on the door. Walker did not make an error. He is totally justified in his reaction. He did not know who was breaking into his home. He had no reason to believe it was police. He defended himself. It's flat out wrong to claim anything else given our laws in this country. I would have done the same in his position.

 

[Ayo]

Basic. Media. Literacy.

 

[JimEverett]

The Taylor case is a tragedy, but it seems that the intial narrative ends up being incorrect quite often. I might have missed it, but it seems like every time I heard about the Taylor case it was stated that it was a no knock raid and no mention of the boyfriend firing first on the officers. The Democratic Party claimed there wasn't any warrant.


Senior Daily Daily Beast Columnist and CNN Contributor. She deleted the tweet:

We also know that Micheal Brown never said hands up don't shoot, but people still say that slogan.

I don;t do Twitter, so maybe I am not reading this correctly. Is a white woman calling the black Attorney General of Kentucky an Uncle Tom/Step&Fetch Negro? That doesn't violate Twitter standards? That hasn't resulted in swift condemnation?

 

[SaintForLife]

I don;t do Twitter, so maybe I am not reading this correctly. Is a white woman calling the black Attorney General of Kentucky an Uncle Tom/Step&Fetch Negro? That doesn't violate Twitter standards? That hasn't resulted in swift condemnation?

Yes you are correct. She deleted both tweets and made her account private.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Also, while it may be legal to shoot people inside your house, I think it is wonton disregard for life to do so.

Whether the cops should've been there to search the house is a different matter. I think it was wrong for them to go there in the middle of the night, but once Walker started shooting, he made a fatal error.

To clarify:

It's legal to shoot intruders, but it's a crime to do so and the cops were wrong to do what they did, but it's Walker's fault.

Do you see the hypocrisy here?

 

[SaintForLife]

Oh, look, speaking of trying to inflame without knowing the facts,

I never mentioned Soros and 1 out of those 6 accounts mentioned Soros.

A video that shows that the protest and/or riot is being coordinated and funded by someone isn't comparable to the Democrats or national media pushing a narrative that can incite riots and inflame racial tensions.

 

[Ayo]

A video that shows that the protest and/or riot is being coordinated and funded by someone isn't comparable to the Democrats or national media pushing a narrative that can incite riots and inflame racial tensions.

so rather than be accountable for the inaccuracy of your framing, you pivot to, "Well it's not as bad as what the Dems are doing!"

now, four things

first, we need more personal accountability - as I mentioned in another post

second, if we want to talk about inflaming racial tensions, then we ought to be comparing the rhetoric from the President who has decided to Willie Horton his way to November

third, to dismiss the presence these sorts of assumptions and delusions have on social media - especially Facebook - is to ignore some very important, relevant context

fourth, what's so condemnable about a protest being "organized"?

in short, the cherry picking continues

 

[Lapaz]

To clarify:

It's legal to shoot intruders, but it's a crime to do so and the cops were wrong to do what they did, but it's Walker's fault.

Do you see the hypocrisy here?

There are things that are wrong and legal. You can call people repulsive things, but it is legal. You can get a no knock warrant, but that is wrong. You can shoot anyone who you suspect doesn’t belong on your property, but it is wrong unless you fear for your life. You can claim that Walker feared for his life, but it is wanton disregard for someone else’s life if you shoot without knowledge of who you’re shooting at. That isn’t hypocrisy. That is being a caring human being.

 

[Lapaz]

You're really stretching to twist the facts in this case to fit your chosen narrative. There AG claims that there was one witness who claims that police announced themselves once. That hasn't been corroborated by independent reporting and AG hasn't released any information as to who that witness was. There are at least 10 people on record that live at the apartment complex that did hear the police bang on the door, but never head them identify themselves.

Also, it doesn't matter if somebody else heard police identify themselves. Taylor and Walker never did hear them. They where the ones who's apartment is being broken into. If they don't hear them, what does it really matter?

In addition. Walker asked them several times to identify themselves. Your claim is just wrong! They did not identify themselves, they banged on the door. Walker did not make an error. He is totally justified in his reaction. He did not know who was breaking into his home. He had no reason to believe it was police. He defended himself. It's flat out wrong to claim anything else given our laws in this country. I would have done the same in his position.

I haven’t twisted anything. I said there was one person that corroborated. The rest that didn’t hear anything may be deep sleepers. You can’t prove a negative, so the person that did hear them announce themselves has more credibility. With that said, you’re right that it was Walker and Taylor that needed to hear it, but Walker did say he heard the aggressive banging at the door. Who has corroborated that Walker asked them to ID themselves once they broke in? Are you taking Walker’s word for that? I find it hard to believe that he asked them to ID themselves. Had he said stop or I’ll shoot, I think the cop wouldn’t have been shot, because he would’ve taken precautions to avoid being shot. Realistically, Walker was paranoid, and started the shootout wantonly disregarding life. That’s not twisting anything. That’s the most realistic scenario.

 

[Ayo]

Saying that you can’t prove a negative, implying some measure of verifiability is relevant, seems out of place in or incompatible with a series of posts that rely on likelihood and speculation as a counter.

someone else can’t use something that can’t be proven, but in return, you can argue “I find it hard to believe” and “I think that”? That doesn’t seem like a reasonable or equitable way to have a discussion.

 

[coldseat]

I haven’t twisted anything. I said there was one person that corroborated. The rest that didn’t hear anything may be deep sleepers. You can’t prove a negative, so the person that did hear them announce themselves has more credibility. With that said, you’re right that it was Walker and Taylor that needed to hear it, but Walker did say he heard the aggressive banging at the door. Who has corroborated that Walker asked them to ID themselves once they broke in? Are you taking Walker’s word for that? I find it hard to believe that he asked them to ID themselves. Had he said stop or I’ll shoot, I think the cop wouldn’t have been shot, because he would’ve taken precautions to avoid being shot. Realistically, Walker was paranoid, and started the shootout wantonly disregarding life. That’s not twisting anything. That’s the most realistic scenario.

They weren't all asleep as you claim. Reportedly one of the neighbors was outside on his porch smoking and he didn't hear the police announce themselves. But even assuming they did, the person that reports police did announce themselves said that he only heard them say it once.

I would assume that the only other person who could corroborate Walker's accounts are Taylor and the police. Taylor is dead and the police would have no reason to admit that. Besides, why would Walker lie? What he claims is what I would think anybody would do in that situation. You're trying very hard to put the blame for what occurred on him. I don't see any of this as his fault.

 

[Lapaz]

They weren't all asleep as you claim. Reportedly one of the neighbors was outside on his porch smoking and he didn't hear the police announce themselves. But even assuming they did, the person that reports police did announce themselves said that he only heard them say it once.

I would assume that the only other person who could corroborate Walker's accounts are Taylor and the police. Taylor is dead and the police would have no reason to admit that. Besides, why would Walker lie? What he claims is what I would think anybody would do in that situation. You're trying very hard to put the blame for what occurred on him. I don't see any of this as his fault.

I disagree that anybody would do what Walker did. I would not start shooting without asking who's there, and I would yell to stop or I'll shoot. It takes paranoia to assume that you're about to be killed. I suspect Walker has reason to believe he might be in danger, but that doesn't excuse him from wanton disregard for life. He has a motive to lie to assure he would be exonerated. He was initially charged, and then the charges were dropped probably based on the fact that it is legal to shoot an intruder to your home, but that doesn't make it right. It is also legal in some places to kill people based on stand your ground, and we know that's generally abused. The police also have motive to lie, but I tend to believe cops are going to take precautions to avoid dangers, so it is more likely than not that the police announced themselves. It is also less likely that 3 cops are not all lying vs 1 person that started the shootout.

 

[MT15]

I don;t do Twitter, so maybe I am not reading this correctly. Is a white woman calling the black Attorney General of Kentucky an Uncle Tom/Step&Fetch Negro? That doesn't violate Twitter standards? That hasn't resulted in swift condemnation?

I can tell you don’t do Twitter, lol. I must report 5-10 really disgusting tweets a day. I mean really disgusting, like I hope you get raped, and you deserve to die.

 

[coldseat]

I disagree that anybody would do what Walker did. I would not start shooting without asking who's there, and I would yell to stop or I'll shoot. It takes paranoia to assume that you're about to be killed. I suspect Walker has reason to believe he might be in danger, but that doesn't excuse him from wanton disregard for life. He has a motive to lie to assure he would be exonerated. He was initially charged, and then the charges were dropped probably based on the fact that it is legal to shoot an intruder to your home, but that doesn't make it right. It is also legal in some places to kill people based on stand your ground, and we know that's generally abused. The police also have motive to lie, but I tend to believe cops are going to take precautions to avoid dangers, so it is more likely than not that the police announced themselves. It is also less likely that 3 cops are not all lying vs 1 person that started the shootout.

Can't agree with you at all on this. Walker did nothing wrong. I'm sure that you wouldn't shoot with people that you don't know banging at your door at 12 am and then busting into your house. Sure you wouldn't. Walker was well within his rights. I have no reason to believe he is lying. His action are well within the range of understandable and acceptable behavior given the situation he was in.

Sorry, but I do not trust the accounts of police unless they are independently verified. And the cops accounts on this matter are suspect at best, as they've been caught several times already trying to cover up the truth.

Honestly, it's unbelievable to me that you've settled on Walker as the cause and person to blame for all of this. Dude is as innocent an Taylor was. He could have ended up just as dead as Taylor given how the police carried this out.

 

[MT15]

I never mentioned Soros and 1 out of those 6 accounts mentioned Soros.

A video that shows that the protest and/or riot is being coordinated and funded by someone isn't comparable to the Democrats or national media pushing a narrative that can incite riots and inflame racial tensions.

So are you trying to say that nobody local could have afforded to rent that truck? What are you attempting to say here because I can’t make any sense of it.

And you are also trying to say that racial tensions have been inflamed by democrats and the media? So police killings, police brutality, and Trump‘s rhetoric had nothing to do with it?

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I disagree that anybody would do what Walker did. I would not start shooting without asking who's there, and I would yell to stop or I'll shoot. It takes paranoia to assume that you're about to be killed. I suspect Walker has reason to believe he might be in danger, but that doesn't excuse him from wanton disregard for life. He has a motive to lie to assure he would be exonerated. He was initially charged, and then the charges were dropped probably based on the fact that it is legal to shoot an intruder to your home, but that doesn't make it right. It is also legal in some places to kill people based on stand your ground, and we know that's generally abused. The police also have motive to lie, but I tend to believe cops are going to take precautions to avoid dangers, so it is more likely than not that the police announced themselves. It is also less likely that 3 cops are not all lying vs 1 person that started the shootout.

If I hear my door getting busted through, I can guarantee you I'm coming out firing at the very first thing I see and that's not acting out of paranoia, that would me defending myself.

Want to know what is acting out of paranoia? Busting down a door while executing an early morning SEARCH WARRANT. Could they not wait for someone to actually answer the door?

 

[Ayo]

As a longtime poster at tigerdroppings, I can affirm that this does not come as a surprise.

 

[MT15]

I disagree that anybody would do what Walker did. I would not start shooting without asking who's there, and I would yell to stop or I'll shoot. It takes paranoia to assume that you're about to be killed. I suspect Walker has reason to believe he might be in danger, but that doesn't excuse him from wanton disregard for life. He has a motive to lie to assure he would be exonerated. He was initially charged, and then the charges were dropped probably based on the fact that it is legal to shoot an intruder to your home, but that doesn't make it right. It is also legal in some places to kill people based on stand your ground, and we know that's generally abused. The police also have motive to lie, but I tend to believe cops are going to take precautions to avoid dangers, so it is more likely than not that the police announced themselves. It is also less likely that 3 cops are not all lying vs 1 person that started the shootout.

well, about the truthfulness of this particular police department, I wouldn’t hang my hat on it. Their first police report claimed they didn’t break the door down along with many other errors. I believe the warrant itself was obtained on false pretenses. And they have been covering up the facts of this case for a while.

The head of one of the local police unions write a letter to the editor when they released the shooter calling him an attempted cop killer, even though there’s no evidence he knew they were police. Even when he made the 911 call, as upset as he was, he didn’t refer to them as police. So either he was incredibly tuned in to what he would need to say in order to preserve his defense as his girl friend lay dying, or he didn’t know who they were. Presumably he realized by then that it wasn’t Taylor’s ex, which is apparently what he was concerned about which led to him firing his weapon.

IIRC, he yelled at them to identify themselves either just after or just before they broke down the door.