Law be damned, Trump asserts unilateral control over executive branch, federal service (3 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Following the Project 2025 playbook, in the last week, Trump and his newly installed loyalists have moved to (1) dismiss federal officials deemed unreliable to do his bidding (including 17 inspectors general) - many of which have protections from arbitrary dismissal, (2) freeze all science and public health activity until he can wrest full control, (3) freeze all federal assistance and grant activity deemed inconsistent with Trump's agenda, and (4) moved to terminate all federal employee telework and DEI programs.

The problem is much of this is controlled by federal law and not subject to sudden and complete change by the president through executive order. Most notably is the Impoundment Control Act of 1974 that simply codifies what is the constitutional allocation of resources where Congress appropriates money to the executive branch for a specific purpose, the executive branch must carry out that statutory purpose. This is indeed a constitutional crisis and even if Congress abdicates to Trump by acquiescing, the courts must still apply the law - or rule it unconstitutional.

And meanwhile the architect of much of this unlawful action is Russell Vought, Trump’s OMB nominee who the Senate appears ready to confirm.

120. The Impoundment Crisis of 2025

The Trump administration's Monday spending freeze is likely to provoke a crisis over the constitutionality of "impoundment"—one that the justices could well have to resolve *very* soon.

www.stevevladeck.com

 

[el caliente]

 

[DaveXA]

Dave, did we not talk about the Truman Committee from the 1940s, and National Partnership for Reinventing Government created in the 1990s? These entities were created under executive orders by Democrats in order to cut waste, find efficiencies, and make Americans feel better about their hard earned dollars being sent to Washington. Those were great at the time, and DOGE appears to be following their lead.

If you can't see the difference, then I question your objectivity.

Even the GAO is aware of billions in fraud taking place every year, so an extra set of eyes, coming from the corporate world, can only help.

I'll say that while there likely is fraud in the billions, keep in mind the GAO report I believe you're referring is purely an estimate based on figured from a given recent 5 year period. This an estimate with some pretty broad assumptions. I also imagine a lot of the fraud is from things like tax fraud, fraudulent applications for entitlements i.e. Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. There's also the student loan programs and the small business loans that went to companies who didn't qualify.

And you've made no mention of the programs that have started being rolled out or have been in place for years to combat fraud and waste. The DOD will be undergoing their first comprehensive audit in the next couple of years. Fraud and waste have been a topic of discussion for years, and things have been progressing in that direction for some time depending on the agency.

 

[MT15]

You’ve been duped by a corrupt, drug-addled billionaire. Well, actually a couple of them.

Musk doesn’t give 2 shirts about fraud or waste, he’s just as much of a sociopath as Trump. He’s furthering his own causes on our dime, much like he runs his own companies.

I’m really flabbergasted that anyone with any common sense at all is believing any of this shirt.

 

[DaveXA]

I don’t want the US to drop in value, however my point was that contrary to popular opinion (at the time of its acquisition) Twitter is not in fact dead. While the numbers of new users has dropped by 5% from 2023 to 2024, it still have over 360m unique users, so it is far from dead.

Let him cook.

That 360 million users claim is nonsense. And a big chunk of those are bots. And I know a ton of people who have quit using Twitter or deleted their accounts. I liked X until Musk started messing with it.

And he's closer to burning it down than cooking.

 

[el caliente]

If you can't see the difference, then I question your objectivity.

I'll say that while there likely is fraud in the billions, keep in mind the GAO report I believe you're referring is purely an estimate based on figured from a given recent 5 year period. This an estimate with some pretty broad assumptions. I also imagine a lot of the fraud is from things like tax fraud, fraudulent applications for entitlements i.e. Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

And you've made no mention of the programs that have started being rolled out or have been in place for years to combat fraud and waste. The DOD will be undergoing their first comprehensive audit in the next couple of years. Fraud and waste have been a topic of discussion for years, and things have been progressing in that direction for some time depending on the agency.

What is the difference between the three other than “Elon is yucky, and Trump is a doodoo head?”
The mission of the three has been to identify and eliminate waste. God speed on that endeavor.

The GAO number I am referencing is below.

Fraud Risk Management: 2018-2022 Data Show Federal Government Loses an Estimated $233 Billion to $521 Billion Annually to Fraud, Based on Various Risk Environments

No area of the federal government is immune to fraud. We estimated that the federal government could lose between $233 billion and $521 billion...

www.gao.gov

If you read further down in the report under their recommendations to OMB to prevent frauds they recommend “(1) identify and establish consistent data elements and terminology for use across OIGs”.

the status of this recommendation as of the time of reporting is “In a July 2024 update, OMB stated that it has not started action on the recommendations but plans to. To fully implement these recommendations, OMB will need to work with the oversight community to develop a plan--with timelines for implementation--for collecting consistent fraud-related data.”

Perhaps having the second set of eyes on things isn’t a bad idea until OMB gets this under control.

I really am looking forward to seeing how DOGE tackles the DoD. While both sides benefit from the war machine, one side benefits far more, so not coming away with a pound of skin will be very telling, and very disappointing.

 

[el caliente]

That 360 million users claim is nonsense. And a big chunk of those are bots. And I know a ton of people who have quit using Twitter or deleted their accounts. I liked X until Musk started messing with it.

And he's closer to burning it down than cooking.

The 335M user claim comes from this site.

https://thesocialshepherd.com/blog/twitter-statistics

I believe the claim that a big chunk of users are bots is overstated. I’ve seen the % of bots on Twitter range from 15-37%, but nobody is really confident about those numbers.

Has anyone here tried bluesky? Is it good, or is it full of pedophiles like my crazy coworker told me? I see people share links from that site, but those same people share links from Twitter as well, so maybe people aren’t fully converted?

 

[el caliente]

You’ve been duped by a corrupt, drug-addled billionaire. Well, actually a couple of them.

Musk doesn’t give 2 shirts about fraud or waste, he’s just as much of a sociopath as Trump. He’s furthering his own causes on our dime, much like he runs his own companies.

I’m really flabbergasted that anyone with any common sense at all is believing any of this shirt.

I don’t know how to respond to this. Weren’t you really big into the Russian collusion thang?

Also, no laughing emoji in response to my joke about the web developers of the DOGE website? That’s bipartisan comedy.

This DOGE story seems to be the red meat that MSNBC, WaPo, and Trustmebro.com (formerly trustmeaboutproject2025bro.com) know that their consumers can’t get enough of.

 

[wardorican]

The wild thing about this is that you all are so hooked on Elon heading this, that you forget that this iteration of DOGE is the third of its kind.

There was the Truman committee in 1941 which was created for fear of government waste. The group ended up uncovering waste, and saved the government the equivalent of $3trillion.

Truman Committee - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

During the Clinton Administration the National Partnership for Reinventing Government was created in order to investigate and clear up waste in government. Depending on which side of the checkbook you were on, it worked.

National Partnership for Reinventing Government - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I can understand people attacking Musk. I’m not here to defend or attack him. I am here for curbing government waste. We should all be for curbing government waste. Place is starting to feel like. Kleptocracy.

Then do it the right way. Review all govt spending for the year, and create a new budget proposal for the next fiscal year and get your party in congress to vote on it. The executive doesn't just get to shut down programs and funding they don't like, for dubious, at best, reasons.

Just because you don't agree with sending US rice overseas to starving people who have food scarcity, it doesn't make it waste.

Just because you have an issue with people getting limited govt backed loans to use for their education, with the general idea that there is a decent probability of that investment paying off in higher wages, thus higher taxes... does not make it waste.

You may not trust government, but I definitely do not trust your ability to find your own amswers, comprehension, nor your decision making.

 

[wardorican]

The purpose of government is different to different people, however spending money on sex changes in Guatemala probably wasn’t what the founding fathers had in mind when they came up with this crazy nation.

That's highly misleading. Also, "gender affirming care" doesn't equal sex changes.

Fact-Checking Claims About U.S.A.I.D. Funding

Trump administration officials have misled about how the aid agency is spending its funding, in an effort to cite widespread “waste.”

www.nytimes.com

 

[cuddlemonkey]

What is the difference between the three other than “Elon is yucky, and Trump is a doodoo head?”

The National Partnership for Reinventing Government and the Truman Committee did everything through Congress instead of unilaterally with zero oversight. You know that, though.

 

[el caliente]

Then do it the right way. Review all govt spending for the year, and create a new budget proposal for the next fiscal year and get your party in congress to vote on it. The executive doesn't just get to shut down programs and funding they don't like, for dubious, at best, reasons.

Just because you don't agree with sending US rice overseas to starving people who have food scarcity, it doesn't make it waste.

Just because you have an issue with people getting limited govt backed loans to use for their education, with the general idea that there is a decent probability of that investment paying off in higher wages, thus higher taxes... does not make it waste.

You may not trust government, but I definitely do not trust your ability to find your own amswers, comprehension, nor your decision making.

Tell me, did it hurt you when your party sold your boy short and told him to retire so that they could run the inferior candidate?

At the end of the day, you deciding to support a party that dgaf about you is the reason we are now having to deal with DOGE.

 

[el caliente]

The National Partnership for Reinventing Government and the Truman Committee did everything through Congress instead of unilaterally with zero oversight. You know that, though.

Why yes. Yes I did.

Lets hope that DOGE has the same positive impact that those two entity’s had.

 

[wardorican]

What is the difference between the three other than “Elon is yucky, and Trump is a doodoo head?”
The mission of the three has been to identify and eliminate waste. God speed on that endeavor.

The GAO number I am referencing is below.

Fraud Risk Management: 2018-2022 Data Show Federal Government Loses an Estimated $233 Billion to $521 Billion Annually to Fraud, Based on Various Risk Environments

No area of the federal government is immune to fraud. We estimated that the federal government could lose between $233 billion and $521 billion...

www.gao.gov

If you read further down in the report under their recommendations to OMB to prevent frauds they recommend “(1) identify and establish consistent data elements and terminology for use across OIGs”.

the status of this recommendation as of the time of reporting is “In a July 2024 update, OMB stated that it has not started action on the recommendations but plans to. To fully implement these recommendations, OMB will need to work with the oversight community to develop a plan--with timelines for implementation--for collecting consistent fraud-related data.”

Perhaps having the second set of eyes on things isn’t a bad idea until OMB gets this under control.

I really am looking forward to seeing how DOGE tackles the DoD. While both sides benefit from the war machine, one side benefits far more, so not coming away with a pound of skin will be very telling, and very disappointing.

Fraud isn't the same thing as wasteful spending. This fraud estimate is based on people or companies lying to the government and getting payment for things they don't qualify for.

Kinda like the dude in Miami who applied for business loans / payroll help during covid fraudulently and bought a Ferrari.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Where are the clown and dead falcon emojis when they are most needed and most appropriate , as they would be in response to this nonsense .

 

[wardorican]

Tell me, did it hurt you when your party sold your boy short and told him to retire so that they could run the inferior candidate?

At the end of the day, you deciding to support a party that dgaf about you is the reason we are now having to deal with DOGE.

No, I wanted him to drop out. He should have. never re ran.

But way to ignore the merits of what I said and throw up this strawman. Thank you for proving my point.

Deficit spending has been an issue since Clinton. Not a single republican has curtailed spending.

 

[el caliente]

No, I wanted him to drop out. He should have. never re ran.

But way to ignore the merits of what I said and throw up this strawman.

Deficit spending has been an issue since Clinton. Not a single republican has curtailed spending.

It’s not a strawman, it’s the reason we are dealing with DOGE now. Thanks!

 

[el caliente]

Where are the clown and dead falcon emojis when they are most needed and most appropriate , as they would be in response to this nonsense .

Tough crowd tonight. Now I know how Rodney Dangerfield felt.lol

 

[wardorican]

It’s not a strawman, it’s the reason we are dealing with DOGE now. Thanks!

It has nothing to do with what I said.