Law be damned, Trump asserts unilateral control over executive branch, federal service (11 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Following the Project 2025 playbook, in the last week, Trump and his newly installed loyalists have moved to (1) dismiss federal officials deemed unreliable to do his bidding (including 17 inspectors general) - many of which have protections from arbitrary dismissal, (2) freeze all science and public health activity until he can wrest full control, (3) freeze all federal assistance and grant activity deemed inconsistent with Trump's agenda, and (4) moved to terminate all federal employee telework and DEI programs.

The problem is much of this is controlled by federal law and not subject to sudden and complete change by the president through executive order. Most notably is the Impoundment Control Act of 1974 that simply codifies what is the constitutional allocation of resources where Congress appropriates money to the executive branch for a specific purpose, the executive branch must carry out that statutory purpose. This is indeed a constitutional crisis and even if Congress abdicates to Trump by acquiescing, the courts must still apply the law - or rule it unconstitutional.

And meanwhile the architect of much of this unlawful action is Russell Vought, Trump’s OMB nominee who the Senate appears ready to confirm.

120. The Impoundment Crisis of 2025

The Trump administration's Monday spending freeze is likely to provoke a crisis over the constitutionality of "impoundment"—one that the justices could well have to resolve *very* soon.

www.stevevladeck.com

 

[coldseat]

Im just happy we're finally gonna expose all of this wasteful government spending. I think Trump should have picked someone else to do this, but, im glad it is being done. Trump getting things done. Refreshing. America first is what he ran on, and he is doing it. God bless him.

That's not what's happening. You don't need control of the payment systems to uncover waste in government spending. And these yahoo's wouldn't be able to uncover waste like they're talking about in just a couple of days.

If we want to uncover waste, how about we start with going through all of the contracts Elon's company has with the government and eliminating those. That's where the real waste is at.

 

[coldseat]

Again, I understand that, but I think the only way to combat tyranny is by strict adherence to proper rules and process.

If you want to punish Elon, work vigorously to get everyone to stop buying Tesla's. The stock is already overvalued... if sales keep declining they'll have a massive correction.

I get it, I'm just not of the opinion that we need to give a billionaire working to destroy our system of government through illegal actions any safe quarters. We don't need to be differential to Elon, it's not going to make our country better or stronger. We can just depower him and dismiss him. The best way to do that is through locking him and his companies out of government contracts, which I would support. It's the best way to get rid of waste.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I get it, I'm just not of the opinion that we need to give a billionaire working to destroy our system of government through illegal actions any safe quarters. We don't need to be differential to Elon, it's not going to make our country better or stronger. We can just depower him and dismiss him. The best way to do that is through locking him and his companies out of government contracts, which I would support. It's the best way to get rid of waste.

He would need to go through a legal review showing he did illegal things. If he has been convicted, then a normal procurement review would penalize any company that is led by a criminal.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

That's not what's happening. You don't need control of the payment systems to uncover waste in government spending. And these yahoo's wouldn't be able to uncover waste like they're talking about in just a couple of days.

All they've done is do a scrub of the publicly available sites for words they don't like and then turn around and distort the program and expect people to shower them with praise.

 

[Optimus Prime]

He would need to go through a legal review showing he did illegal things. If he has been convicted, then a normal procurement review would penalize any company that is led by a criminal.

Hopefully those efforts have more success than those trying to hold Trump accountable

I'm with @coldseat

Musk companies out

Not fair? Tell it to the lifelong civil servants who've worked for the government for decades, one or two years in a diversity group and lost their jobs in this DEI purge

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

That's not what's happening. You don't need control of the payment systems to uncover waste in government spending. And these yahoo's wouldn't be able to uncover waste like they're talking about in just a couple of days.

If we want to uncover waste, how about we start with going through all of the contracts Elon's company has with the government and eliminating those. That's where the real waste is at.

The only thing doge has done so far in their efforts to "uncover" fraud, waste and abuse is display their own fraud, waste and abuse.

Fraud:
DOGE has routinely lied to the people claiming they have "exposed" wasteful spending, when that very spending has always been readily available to the public via The Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006. https://www.usaspending.gov/

Waste:
DOGE is a waste. They are creating more problems than they solve because their actions have created lawsuit after lawsuit. Their freezing of funds at USAID alone, has led to millions of dollars in food supply designated for dispersal to just sit and rot.

Abuse:
DOGE whole mission plan is to circumvent Congress and the laws of this nation.

 

[Sendai]

I would find that hard to believe as well. Read only access to the data is pretty standard on most systems. It still should be approved. You wouldn’t hand that out to just anyone. The ability to modify code is a different level of access and isn’t generally handed out to anyone other than folks who actually approved to code. Further, whomever runs security would know if the code had been modified. These are common controls in large systems. You wouldn’t pass the first audit otherwise.

Expect that Doge is collecting massive amounts of data to audit. The resulting summaries of the audits should be interesting. How many, how much and where it goes. Plus a whole lot of egghead analytics.

 

[coldseat]

He would need to go through a legal review showing he did illegal things. If he has been convicted, then a normal procurement review would penalize any company that is led by a criminal.

Elon deserves as much legal consideration as the people who have lost their employment and companies because because of his purge. Lock him and his companies out first and then they can fight through the legal process to get back in. Let them suffer in the meantime.

I truly understand your position @UncleTrvlingJim and would normally agree with you. But if Trump and Elon have shown us anything, it's that you can't deal with people like them through "normal legal process". It just won't stand. Normal legal process is for the rest of us. What happens when Trump pre-pardons Elon? What about the legal review then? That's why we need a candidate who will state how he will deal with Elon directly while running for president, win the election and then follow through. If we had that with Trump after January 6th, we wouldn't be here now.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Expect that Doge is collecting massive amounts of data to audit. The resulting summaries of the audits should be interesting. How many, how much and where it goes. Plus a whole lot of egghead analytics.

you have no clue what they are doing. you don't know that the guy who has ties to Russia is not selling American info to Russia.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Elon deserves as much legal consideration as the people who have lost their employment and companies because because of his purge. Lock him and his companies out first and then they can fight through the legal process to get back in. Let them suffer in the meantime.

I truly understand your position @UncleTrvlingJim and would normally agree with you. But if Trump and Elon have shown us anything, it's that you can't deal with people like them through "normal legal process". It just won't stand. Normal legal process is for the rest of us. What happens when Trump pre-pardons Elon? What about the legal review then? That's why we need a candidate who will state how he will deal with Elon directly while running for president, win the election and then follow through. If we had that with Trump after January 6th, we wouldn't be here now.

With cries of radical left witch hunts and weaponizing the government

 

[TampaJoe]

you have no clue what they are doing. you don't know that the guy who has ties to Russia is not selling American info to Russia.

Somebody in Congress might want to call him to testify. Might put an end to all this speculation.

 

[brandon]

I know what a code base is and you can’t change it in a week. I doubt the people making the claim have anything to do with the software driving the systems.

I know what a code base is, and I have a degree in Software Engineering too. No, they can't rewrite the entire codebase or replace it overnight, but yes, they absolutely can start messing around with it and inserting additional code to add or modify processes to do all kinds of stuff, as well as just using the existing systems in inappropriate ways.

I have no idea why people, who on the face it should know better, want to define this is as a black or white "either they can 'rewrite the code base of the United States government' or they can't do anything at all". The WIRED article cited and linked to from your link, Sendai, doesn't even appear to mention them doing that. A different WIRED article - https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-associate-bfs-federal-payment-system/ - says they have write access to some systems, but also doesn't say they plan to "migrate the code base of the United States Government".

The bottom line is, they can do a lot of damage with the access they reportedly have, and the fact they can't "rewrite the code base of the United States government" overnight does nothing to change that. That's like saying someone punching you in the face doesn't have the ability to disintegrate your entire body. Great. They're still punching you in the face.

I also have a degree in Software Engineering, and I second everything RobF said. If you know what you're looking for, and have the necessary access, you can make significant changes in literal minutes.

 

[DaveXA]

Expect that Doge is collecting massive amounts of data to audit. The resulting summaries of the audits should be interesting. How many, how much and where it goes. Plus a whole lot of egghead analytics.

You really think they'll uncover much? Government inefficiency and and waste is already a well-known issue and much of that is public knowledge. I mean, if they think they'll find stuff we don't already know, good luck to em.

And I can promise you, 99% of the public isn't gonna read much, if anything from those audits. There's already plenty out there, and 99% of people have no clue what's in the audits that actually already exist.

 

[DaveXA]

Somebody in Congress might want to call him to testify. Might put an end to all this speculation.

If you can find a single Republican willing to do that, I'd be right with you. But they won't and you know it.

 

[Poppy]

sure keep beliving this. it will make you feel better as you suffer.

ill let you know when i start suffering.

 

[TampaJoe]

If you can find a single Republican willing to do that, I'd be right with you. But they won't and you know it.

I don’t know that. Has anyone tried?

Musk says he wants the process to be transparent. I assume that includes testifying in Congress.

I don’t oppose him or anyone looking or questions government spending. There is nothing wrong with that. We are 36 trillion in debt and counting.

Transparency adds credibility. He should testify.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Somebody in Congress might want to call him to testify. Might put an end to all this speculation.

If you can find a single Republican willing to do that, I'd be right with you. But they won't and you know it.

Congressional Democrats have already tried to subpoena him and the Republicans have blocked it.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I don’t know that. Has anyone tried?

Musk says he wants the process to be transparent. I assume that includes testifying in Congress.

I don’t oppose him or anyone looking or questions government spending. There is nothing wrong with that. We are 36 trillion in debt and counting.

Transparency adds credibility. He should testify.

Republicans block Musk from congressional subponea as DOGE continues to access government data

Congressional Democrats are continuing their push for answers as Elon Musk continues to dismantle and disrupt government services.

abcnews.go.com