Language (1 Viewer)

[Farb]

In another thread, it was brought to my attention that we am not allowed to use certain centuries old definitions because they have been 'updated'. That discussion was about the definition of 'racism'. I asked who controls the 'words' and who exactly gets to update the meaning of those commonly used words.

I saw this yesterday and thought this would be a discussion to attempt to have.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-terms-like-birthing-parents-human-milk.html

https://news.yahoo.com/democrats-replace-women-birthing-people-033500864.html

IMO this is a move to be 'inclusive' to trans people at the sake of women (we are discussing birthing humans after all).

The recent call to change the word for a person who comes into a country illegally from Alien to undocumented. Why? What possible purpose does it serve?

Even 'white supremacy' doesn't mean 'white supremacy'.

I am sure we are all somewhat familiar with Orwell and 1984. So i thought this would be a good place to post and discuss the language that we are seeing right in front of us. If we can't even share a language with common definitions, how do we expect to share a government?

 

[Paul]

Market socialism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Market socialism is a type of economic system involving the public, cooperative, or social ownership of the means of production in the framework of a market economy. WIKI

Socialists have begrudgingly accepted that capitalism creates wealth. China discovered this and as of 2019 Cuba is allowing some private ownership and entrepreneurial activity.

Socialism actually works quite well in small groups where there is kinship or where you have people that have the same goals and philosophy. Businesses owned by workers is a form of socialism in that they own the means of production and share the profits. Publix Supermarkets are owned by the workers and this can be freely done in any capitalist nation. It is quite possible to practice socialism in America. My son in law founded a small company with three college mates. It is basic socialism among four people. However, they do not give the profits away to strangers.

​

 

[coldseat]

The issue is simple. Socialism is generally imposed by coercion. An individual would not be allowed to create a business for personal profit in a socialist country. If any individual is allowed to have a business for profit then the nation allows capitalism and is no longer truly socialist. China now allows capitalism and hence is not socialist anymore. They have transitioned into fascism.

Fascism is not an economic model, neither is authoritarianism. You're mixing terms all over the place in this discussion. Chine is a mixed economy, with a strong authoritarian, communist government that controls many of the means of production for its country.

Just FYI, Economic models - Capitalism (Market-Economy); Socialism (Command Economy); Democratic Socialism, Social Democracy, etc. (Mixed Economy).

Governing models - Democracy, Democratic Republic, Communism, Fascism, Dictatorship, etc.

Descriptors - authoritarianism

Just about all modern economies are mixed, including China and the US even if they tend to identify with one end of the spectrum or the other (i.e China - Socialism, US - Capitalism). They just land on different points of that scale from Capatilism to Socialism and have very different governing models.

Economic Systems - Intelligent Economist

There are four different types of Economic Systems; a traditional economy, a market economy, a command economy, and a mixed economy.

www.intelligenteconomist.com

 

[UriUT]

Market socialism is a type of economic system involving the public, cooperative, or social ownership of the means of production in the framework of a market economy. WIKI

Socialists have begrudgingly accepted that capitalism creates wealth. China discovered this and as of 2019 Cuba is allowing some private ownership and entrepreneurial activity.

Socialism actually works quite well in small groups where there is kinship or where you have people that have the same goals and philosophy. Businesses owned by workers is a form of socialism in that they own the means of production and share the profits. Publix Supermarkets are owned by the workers and this can be freely done in any capitalist nation. It is quite possible to practice socialism in America. My son in law founded a small company with three college mates. It is basic socialism among four people. However, they do not give the profits away to strangers.

​

Ok..so socialism is when a group of people collaborate to form a corporation to make a profit and then hold it for themselves. Profit will not go to someone else!

I gotta take me more of those economics, anthropology, and philosophy courses on facebook. My years of proper schooling done me wrong.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

So now you are saying Socialism is more than just textbook. finally, we agree there is more than just a textbook socialism.

A dictionary is concerned with the meaning of single words. Once a dictionary engages into the definition of political movements then we have much more than just a dictionary. The opinion could be biased to the left or the right.

So the dictionary shouldn't have definitions for ANY political movements? Or just ones you see fit?
Also, where do you get that a dictionary is the meaning of SINGLE WORDS only?

 

[samiam5211]

Market socialism is a type of economic system involving the public, cooperative, or social ownership of the means of production in the framework of a market economy. WIKI

Socialists have begrudgingly accepted that capitalism creates wealth. China discovered this and as of 2019 Cuba is allowing some private ownership and entrepreneurial activity.

Socialism actually works quite well in small groups where there is kinship or where you have people that have the same goals and philosophy. Businesses owned by workers is a form of socialism in that they own the means of production and share the profits. Publix Supermarkets are owned by the workers and this can be freely done in any capitalist nation. It is quite possible to practice socialism in America. My son in law founded a small company with three college mates. It is basic socialism among four people. However, they do not give the profits away to strangers.

​

Roads, schools, police, the national defense, are all funded by market socialism. Even Social Security and Medicare are market socialist programs. You can say people pay into them, but the same thing could be said for any tax funded program.

Economies aren't pure. Pretty much every country on the planet with a functioning economy has a hybrid model including several philosophies.

I know you want to create a boogeyman out of the word "socialism", but it's dishonest.

 

[V Chip]

Great points! The solutions to our problems are not 100%on the left or 100% on the right. The solutions have to do with common sense and using whatever works best on both sides of the spectrum.

Then why are you railing against Democratic Socialism? It is based upon ideals from the right (capitalism and market-based economy) and the left (social welfare, progressive taxation, guaranteed education & healthcare & housing). You've blasted it as completely left-based ideas when it is not.

Being American is now the domain of the right and not the left.

As for empathy and altruism: This is what Rand has to say:

Do not hide behind such superficialities as whether you should or should not give a dime to a beggar. That is not the issue. The issue is whether you do or do not have the right to exist without giving him that dime. The issue is whether you must keep buying your life, dime by dime, from any beggar who might choose to approach you. The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence.

And this is one more reason that Ayn Rand is a self-centered moron who preached an economic model/philosophy that most people rightly abandon in high school/young adulthood.

 

[Farb]

I thought about putting this in the Racist thread but since this hand sign has been around forever and now it makes people upset enough to fire and ruin people's lives over, I figured this was a good place.

https://independentchronicle.com/firefighter-leave-flashing-okay-hand-gesture-racist/


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...spicable-me-actor-after-ok-symbol/3791483002/
Now this one is obviously just a cash grab, at some point, we as a normal society must say 'no' you don't get paid because you feeling got hurt because you interpret something.

And this poor Hispanic white supremist lost his job over cracking his knuckles in his truck...
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/lo...esture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/

 

[samiam5211]

I thought about putting this in the Racist thread but since this hand sign has been around forever and now it makes people upset enough to fire and ruin people's lives over, I figured this was a good place.

https://independentchronicle.com/firefighter-leave-flashing-okay-hand-gesture-racist/


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...spicable-me-actor-after-ok-symbol/3791483002/
Now this one is obviously just a cash grab, at some point, we as a normal society must say 'no' you don't get paid because you feeling got hurt because you interpret something.

And this poor Hispanic white supremist lost his job over cracking his knuckles in his truck...
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/lo...esture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/

If people are fired without evidence that supports the intent, lawsuits will ensue.

I think if people are doing it because they believe it is racist, or just to be a troll, their employers should be able to take action.

An upside down ok symbol isn’t an ok signal. It never has been.

Grown men ain’t playing the circle game.

 

[Farb]

An upside down ok symbol isn’t an ok signal. It never has been.

Grown men ain’t playing the circle game.

We dont know that grown men and women don't play the punch game.

And, who decided that this is a racist symbol, idiots from 4chan, and the left just goes along with it? Again, to me this is an attempt to manufacture racism in our country that just is not there. Anything to divide and control.

 

[samiam5211]

We dont know that grown men and women don't play the punch game.

They’re not playing the game. I’m not accepting the premise that it is a possibility.

 

[brandon]

We dont know that grown men and women don't play the punch game.

We do know that some grown men and women are racists.

 

[Paul]

We dont know that grown men and women don't play the punch game.

And, who decided that this is a racist symbol, idiots from 4chan, and the left just goes along with it? Again, to me this is an attempt to manufacture racism in our country that just is not there. Anything to divide and control.

These days anything is racism. If a person says "I am not racist" that is considered racism.
If a person pays no attention to skin color that is racism.

 

[brandon]

These days anything is racism.

Nope.

If a person says "I am not racist" that is considered racism.

Nope. But people who have to say "I am not racist" are often protesting too much. Especially if the next word is "but".

If a person pays no attention to skin color that is racism.

Nope. Well, kinda, but definitely needs context.

 

[Farb]

They’re not playing the game. I’m not accepting the premise that it is a possibility.

So the only other option is racsim? LOL. I got it. This symbol was nothing 2 years ago before some trolls said it was racist and now, magically, it is racist. Just like our system of economics, government, time management, the traditional family unit, math, I am sure I missed something else.

If you are taught to see racism in everything, you will see racism in everything. It actually says more for those people, like the fire chief and anyone else, than it does for some young mexican to crack his knuckles in his work truck or a young firefighter making a joke for some PR fluff piece on the news.

 

[samiam5211]

So the only other option is racsim? LOL. I got it. This symbol was nothing 2 years ago before some trolls said it was racist and now, magically, it is racist. Just like our system of economics, government, time management, the traditional family unit, math, I am sure I missed something else.

If you are taught to see racism in everything, you will see racism in everything. It actually says more for those people, like the fire chief and anyone else, than it does for some young mexican to crack his knuckles in his work truck or a young firefighter making a joke for some PR fluff piece on the news.

No, the other option is trolling, which I am fine with employers taking action over.

 

[brandon]

This symbol was nothing 2 years ago before some trolls said it was racist and now, magically, it is racist. Just like our system of economics, government, time management, the traditional family unit, math, I am sure I missed something else.

You did miss something else.

Swastika - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Farb]

No, the other option is trolling, which I am fine with employers taking action over.

or the guys didn't even know he was making a sign with his fingers that over sensitive people took as something else is also a possibility, no?

 

[samiam5211]

or the guys didn't even know he was making a sign with his fingers that over sensitive people took as something else is also a possibility, no?

Sure, which is why I said that if there is no evidence to support intent lawsuits will ensue.