Kremlin papers appear to show Putin’s plot to put Trump in White House (1 Viewer)

bdb13

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I hope Trump dies soon.
Wasn't trying to go there with it.. guess I was really just curious as to your opinion on Trump (and Trump via his enablers, elected or otherwise - but most especially the elected ones) and his outsized ability to impact the level of polarization given Trump's continued high level of support from the right and how to deal with his singular ability to disproportionately sway the right's opinions on important yet made to be divisive issues such as January 6th and the legitimacy of the 2020 election.
 
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MT15

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Lol, Paul, I had to give you a thumbs up. That’s my husband’s current plan. It’s kinda like using the lottery for your retirement planning though.
 

Paul

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Wasn't trying to go there with it.. guess I was really just curious as to your opinion on Trump (and Trump via his enablers, elected or otherwise - but most especially the elected ones) and his outsized ability to impact the level of polarization given Trump's continued high level of support from the right and how to deal with his singular ability to disproportionately sway the right's opinions on important yet made to be divisive issues such as January 6th and the legitimacy of the 2020 election.
Trump is not good for America. This is quite obvious, but the extreme left needs to be a bit more moderate. Otherwise, we are going to have civil war!
 

MT15

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And we’re back to disagreement, lol. The left is plenty moderate. It’s the right that needs to come back toward the center.
 

bdb13

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Trump is not good for America. This is quite obvious, but the extreme left needs to be a bit more moderate. Otherwise, we are going to have civil war!
As far as the far left, you're speaking in terms of policy? Rhetoric? Both?
 

brandon

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A civil war would be very nasty and as a foreigner I may not do well with that.
I don't understand how you consider yourself a foreigner. You've been in America longer than I've been alive and you seem to be a proponent of assimilation vs. maintaining the identity of your home country.
 

Paul

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I don't understand how you consider yourself a foreigner. You've been in America longer than I've been alive and you seem to be a proponent of assimilation vs. maintaining the identity of your home country.
I am more American than many, but I do have an accent when I speak English and I still have a Spanish surname. I like America as it is now. People are very welcoming, much more so than 50 years ago. The change has been amazing, but I fear a revolutionary war where the masses develop hysteria and group aggression.
 

MT15

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I’m not sure why the focus on the “far left” either. They aren’t in power, they are a minority in the Democratic Party, as well, depending on how you define “far left”. I’m thinking of actual Socialists or Communists. You know , anyone who wants to overthrow our form of government.

Paul, you say the far or radical left has to change, but they are largely irrelevant.

Meanwhile a majority of the Republican Party is actually radical right. They believe our election was fraudulent in the absence of any proof and they want to control speech in the classroom. They consider the free press the enemy of the people and think democrats are socialists or communists, against all reality.

These are the people who need to moderate themselves. These are the people who want to limit the ability of democrats to vote, who deep down want an authoritative government.

Sorry, Paul, you have it exactly backwards.
 

bdb13

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The concept that needs to die is race ID politics (on both sides).
Kind of the point I'm getting at as far as the imbalance and responsibility for the level of polarization we see today.. Let's say we could remove id politics from both sides just for the sake of argument.. you'd still be left with Trump and his grip on the Republican party. I'd argue that there is no such equivalent force on the left.
 

Paul

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Kind of the point I'm getting at as far as the imbalance and responsibility for the level of polarization we see today.. Let's say we could remove id politics from both sides just for the sake of argument.. you'd still be left with Trump and his grip on the Republican party. I'd argue that there is no such equivalent force on the left.
Trump is white ID politics. If there is no ID politics there is no Trump.
 

Paul

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I’m not sure why the focus on the “far left” either. They aren’t in power, they are a minority in the Democratic Party, as well, depending on how you define “far left”. I’m thinking of actual Socialists or Communists. You know , anyone who wants to overthrow our form of government.

Paul, you say the far or radical left has to change, but they are largely irrelevant.

Meanwhile a majority of the Republican Party is actually radical right. They believe our election was fraudulent in the absence of any proof and they want to control speech in the classroom. They consider the free press the enemy of the people and think democrats are socialists or communists, against all reality.

These are the people who need to moderate themselves. These are the people who want to limit the ability of democrats to vote, who deep down want an authoritative government.

Sorry, Paul, you have it exactly backwards.
What needs to go away if race ID politics on both sides.
 

bdb13

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Trump is white ID politics. If there is no ID politics there is no Trump.
He has played upon white ID politics and it played a bigly role in his election, no doubt.. but January 6th and the 2020 election transcend beyond the scope of race ID politics, and in my view revolve more around democratic versus anti-democratic notions, or something along those lines anyway.

Trump is an authoritarian trapped inside a democratic system, and in actuality he seems to enjoy quite the level of support for removing the democratic restraints.
 

Paul

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He has played upon white ID politics and it played a bigly role in his election, no doubt.. but January 6th and the 2020 election transcend beyond the scope of race ID politics, and in my view revolve more around democratic versus anti-democratic notions, or something along those lines anyway.

Trump is an authoritarian trapped inside a democratic system, and in actuality he seems to enjoy quite the level of support for removing the democratic restraints.
Guys, Trump is just a narcissist who got into power. Nothing special. He had the talent to engage the American heartland. Hopefully, he is done. The Yahoos that attacked the capitol were a bunch of imbeciles. That was the white equivalent of looting. There was no real master plan.
 

bdb13

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Guys, Trump is just a narcissist who got into power. Nothing special. He had the talent to engage the American heartland. Hopefully, he is done. The Yahoos that attacked the capitol were a bunch of imbeciles. That was the white equivalent of looting. There was no real master plan.
There was a master plan for the 2020 election, it just didn't work well enough. I'm not sure what Trump thought was going to happen on January 6th, but once he saw what was occurring he liked it and attempted to spin it to his favor (look up the Tuberville call).

I find your take to be naive in the sense that it doesn't recognize the sway that Trump still holds over the right paired with the lies he's currently telling, including martyring Ashli Babbitt by declaring the innocence of the Trump supporting domestic terrorist caught red-handed on video at the Capitol committing an act of domestic terrorism, and then also calling for an investigation into said Trump supporting terrorist's death.

Hundreds of Trump supporters rushed the Capitol building, many of whom with the stated intent to prevent Biden from taking office, of which some of those individuals decided to fight law enforcement as they attempted to reach the lawmakers inside the Capitol. Those guys and gals certainly weren't attempting to reach the lawmakers just so they could simply speak loudly at them and voice their displeasure. What we've seen from Trump here recently is him wanting to make it known that he stands with those who violently reject the left and the results of the 2020 election - they're HIS people. The deplorables, you might call them.

Yeah no, you're definitely naive here to Trump and the depths to which he and his large swath of cultists will dive and the risks that that could pose moving forward.
 

Paul

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There was a master plan for the 2020 election, it just didn't work well enough. I'm not sure what Trump thought was going to happen on January 6th, but once he saw what was occurring he liked it and attempted to spin it to his favor (look up the Tuberville call).

I find your take to be naive in the sense that it doesn't recognize the sway that Trump still holds over the right paired with the lies he's currently telling, including martyring Ashli Babbitt by declaring the innocence of the Trump supporting domestic terrorist caught red-handed on video at the Capitol committing an act of domestic terrorism, and then also calling for an investigation into said Trump supporting terrorist's death.

Hundreds of Trump supporters rushed the Capitol building, many of whom with the stated intent to prevent Biden from taking office, of which some of those individuals decided to fight law enforcement as they attempted to reach the lawmakers inside the Capitol. Those guys and gals certainly weren't attempting to reach the lawmakers just so they could simply speak loudly at them and voice their displeasure. What we've seen from Trump here recently is him wanting to make it known that he stands with those who violently reject the left and the results of the 2020 election - they're HIS people. The deplorables, you might call them.

Yeah no, you're definitely naive here to Trump and the depths to which he and his large swath of cultists will dive and the risks that that could pose moving forward
I cannot believe this was a well thought out plan to take over the government of the United States. I saw a single police officer handle a crowd of hundreds of protesters. The officer effectively deviated the protesters away from Mike Pence and others. If this was a true takeover of the government the cop would’ve been shot right away.

Then I saw many others with goofy looking hats and Halloween type costumes taking selfies in the offices of the congressman and Senators. This is not how A planned attack is supposed to work. All I saw was a bunch of low IQ individuals.

What I really saw was massive systemic racism. The capital police had virtually no security Because they assumed white protesters would not be violent. That is clear racism. If the protesters have been black the security would’ve been greater.
 

bdb13

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I cannot believe this was a well thought out plan to take over the government of the United States. I saw a single police officer handle a crowd of hundreds of protesters. The officer effectively deviated the protesters away from Mike Pence and others. If this was a true takeover of the government the cop would’ve been shot right away.

Then I saw many others with goofy looking hats and Halloween type costumes taking selfies in the offices of the congressman and Senators. This is not how A planned attack is supposed to work. All I saw was a bunch of low IQ individuals.

What I really saw was massive systemic racism. The capital police had virtually no security Because they assumed white protesters would not be violent. That is clear racism. If the protesters have been black the security would’ve been greater.
I'm not saying they were well thought out plans and I'm not saying that there was some centralized plan or anything conspiratorial like that. I would say there were smaller groups of individuals amongst the rioters who ineptly conspired with intent to prevent Biden from taking office.

It was all an act of terrorism, enabled by the sitting President of the time, a former President now whose party in the time since January 6th has mostly continued it's support for him and moved to punish lawmakers on the right who have stood up to him and rejected his deceit on the election and January 6th.

The big lie doesn't gain traction without Trump as it's driving force, but he was and continues to be that, and now we have a Republican party with a majority of its voters who believe the 2020 election was straight up stolen by the Democrats via voter fraud. A complete fabrication.

And that's where it ties together because Trump will be driving this all home to a most receptive and sizeable audience for years to come: "The left is the enemy and they literally, LITERALLY stole OUR election. God bless our freedom fighters at the Capitol for laying down their lives and standing up for us, the true American patriots."

It's a paraphrase but that's what he's forking saying, and that's the forking guy the Republicans have capitulated to and decided will lead their party forward.
 

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