India attacks Pakistan (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

This long simmering conflict gets kinetic.

 

[bird]

Predictable chicken sheet response.

I don’t know what the U.S. can do. I suspect that issuing calls for restraint, ceasefire etc would be a tool. Another tool would be offering to mediate.

That being said…

There really is nothing we can do effectively by ourselves. The lone superpower/indispensable nation myth has ended. A long running series of conflicts both by proxy and direct combined with existential threats not solvable militarily have created a world where the U.S. and, indeed, no other single nation can impact this situation or possibly any other similar situation.

This does not mean isolationism or ignoring such events. It means there is no longer the option of going it alone or walking into a situation and demanding people listen to us because we are the U.S.A.

The last 60+ years have shown that the mythology of military might actually leading to advancing democracy and freedom is a house of cards.

Do I want Pakistan and India lobbing missiles at each other or engaging in terror acts? No. Will the UN be able to do anything? Unlikely as the so-called security council will be a stumbling block to action.

Vance is wrong but he doesn’t understand that in an ever increasingly fractured world combined with climate change and the real potential for devastating pandemics action must be taken. It simply cannot be taken in the same old ways by the same old tired men, particularly military men, utilizing words that have degenerated to meaninglessness. A world that is multi-polar is as unstable as a unipolar world. A fractured world is even more unstable. That is actually a threat to the U.S. as well as to the world of humanity.

 

[DaveXA]

I don’t know what the U.S. can do. I suspect that issuing calls for restraint, ceasefire etc would be a tool. Other tools would be offering to medsiate

Saying we can do nothing about it and putting our heads in the sand pretending it will go away isn't a valid response. (Not directed at you, but at Vance's response.)

True leaders will want to address the conflict and ensure that NATO and our allies have a healthy disposition regarding the issues that have contributed to this mess.

 

[efil4]

I don’t know what the U.S. can do. I suspect that issuing calls for restraint, ceasefire etc would be a tool. Another tool would be offering to mediate.

That being said…

There really is nothing we can do effectively by ourselves. The lone superpower/indispensable nation myth has ended. A long running series of conflicts both by proxy and direct combined with existential threats not solvable militarily have created a world where the U.S. and, indeed, no other single nation can impact this situation or possibly any other similar situation.

This does not mean isolationism or ignoring such events. It means there is no longer the option of going it alone or walking into a situation and demanding people listen to us because we are the U.S.A.

The last 60+ years have shone that the mythology of military might actually leading to advancing democracy and freedom has been shown to be a house of cards.

Do I want Pakistan and India lobbing missiles at each other or engaging in terror acts? No. Will the UN be able to do anything? Unlikely as the so-called security council will be a stumbling block to action.

Vance is wrong but he doesn’t understand that in an ever increasingly fractured world combined with climate change and the real potential for devastating pandemics action must be taken. It simply cannot be taken in the same old ways by the same old tired men, particularly military men, utilizing words that have degenerated to meaninglessness. A world that is multi-polar is as unstable as a unipolar world. A fractured world is even more unstable. That is actually a threat to the U.S. as well as to the world of humanity.

We used to carry that ability.

We no longer carry that ability. And that is a scary notion. That nation states no longer adhere to norms that were formed over decades and decades of US influence and diplomacy.

We are on the cusp of an upending to the global order that was a calming influence for so long. What happens now? We circle the wagons and let the rest of the world burn while we watch on, and pretend it wont affect us?

This administration isnt about order. Its about chaos. Both domestic and global. Meanwhile our stature, our respected reputation and ability to be the "beacon on the hill" when it comes to diplomacy is eroding away at a pace i didnt think possible.

 

[bird]

Saying we can do nothing about it and putting our heads in the sand pretending it will go away isn't a valid response. (Not directed at you, but at Vance's response.)

True leaders will want to address the conflict and ensure that NATO and our allies have a healthy disposition regarding the issues that have contributed to this mess.

I won’t argue. I simply don’t know what actually can be done that would have good long term results. I hope others in positions of power and more intelligent than I as well as better informed on the deep details can arrive at a course of action.

 

[bird]

We used to carry that ability.

We no longer carry that ability. And that is a scary notion. That nation states no longer adhere to norms that were formed over decades and decades of US influence and diplomacy.

We are on the cusp of an upending to the global order that was a calming influence for so long. What happens now? We circle the wagons and let the rest of the world burn while we watch on, and pretend it wont affect us?

This administration isnt about order. Its about chaos. Both domestic and global. Meanwhile our stature, our respected reputation and ability to be the "beacon on the hill" when it comes to diplomacy is eroding away at a pace i didnt think possible.

I agree with what you are saying. Unfortunately, the situation of the world itself has changed. This administration certainly is accelerating the pace but they are symptomatic of a chaos that has lain under the surface of much of the world outside the OECD.

Yes, this will impact us. Perhaps not immediately or perhaps not directly but it will. It is time for some people drawn from various cultures, nations and education to look at the world and try to devise systems and institutions that can prevent or at least minimize these conflicts.

The words from the link to the Atlantic article which were quoted from a Pakistani military person are telling regarding the nature of the conflict. The were the essence of the use of “the other”.

 

[superchuck500]

 

[Sendai]

“India, Pakistan have agreed to an immediate ceasefire, Trump announces
President Trump announced that the agreement was reached “after a long night of talks mediated by the United States.” Pakistani and Indian officials confirmed the ceasefire.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/05/09/india-pakistan-military-attacks/

 

[MT15]

I’m glad not everyone had the stupid opinion of Vance, that we need to stay out of it.

 

[efil4]

“India, Pakistan have agreed to an immediate ceasefire, Trump announces
President Trump announced that the agreement was reached “after a long night of talks mediated by the United States.” Pakistani and Indian officials confirmed the ceasefire.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/05/09/india-pakistan-military-attacks/

Hopefully an isolated skirmish and won't devolve into tit for tat and possible escalation

 

[superchuck500]

 

[efil4]

So India and Paki held direct talks. No US intervention. Which means Trump's post about US mediating was a lie.

My word

 

[MT15]

If that is true, then Rubio just could not sink any lower.

All in service to a clueless egomaniacal sociopath.

Edit: I’m reading that India is denying US involvement while Pakistan is saying the US played a role. So the truth is probably in the middle as Pakistan wants to favor the US and India is resistant to giving credit to the US.

 

[Sendai]

Vance called Indian prime minister to encourage ceasefire talks after receiving alarming intelligence, sources say | CNN Politics

A core group of top US officials — including Vice President JD Vance, Secretary of State and interim national security adviser Marco Rubio, and White House chief of staff Susie Wiles — had been closely monitoring the escalating conflict between India and Pakistan when on Friday morning, the US...

www.cnn.com

 

[UriUT]

If that is true, then Rubio just could not sink any lower.

All in service to a clueless egomaniacal sociopath.

Edit: I’m reading that India is denying US involvement while Pakistan is saying the US played a role. So the truth is probably in the middle as Pakistan wants to favor the US and India is resistant to giving credit to the US.

This administration took credit for india's official stance that they would deescalate if Pakistan did.

What really offended them was not simply the US efforts to de-escalate. Talks between India and Pakistan had been underway behind the scenes even as drones and missiles flew back and forth, targeting military bases on both sides in the most intense fighting since a 1971 war.

Vance’s phone call took place around noon in Washington on Friday. Modi didn’t commit to de-escalation during that call and repeated his message that India would hit back if Pakistan escalated, according to a separate person familiar with the matter.

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio conducted another round of diplomacy, placing separate calls to Munir and Indian Foreign Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar. In that call, Rubio asked if India would de-escalate if Pakistan did as well, and Jaishankar said that had always been India’s position, according to a person familiar with the situation.

Pakistan’s Directors General of Military Operations — a group of top generals — called counterparts in India at 1 p.m. local time, according to the person. The two sides talked some two-and-a-half hours later, and both sides agreed to stop hostilities, the person said.

Then, before either India or Pakistan announced the ceasefire, Trump revealed the agreement on his Truth Social account. Rubio followed with a tweet saying that he and Vance had worked out the deal with officials from both countries, including Modi, Munir, Jaishankar, Pakistani Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif and others.

Now india's pissed at us. It amazes me how trump always makes everything about him. Dumber still, we always find someone willing to ear the diarrhea coming out of trump's mouth.

 

[superchuck500]

So India and Paki held direct talks. No US intervention. Which means Trump's post about US mediating was a lie.

My word

No bruh - he said “come on guys, trade!”

 

[MT15]

OMG, what a moron.