If there was ever a year a third party could make traction... (1 Viewer)

[tenordas]

surely this is it.

One party is running a man half the country hates - no, despises, the other is running a woman even most of the other politicians in her own party can't stand.

Where are you Libertarians? Green Party? Hello?

I thought 2016 was a real shot, but the two most viable third parties both put up unelectable morons.

All one of them needs is someone actually viable and IMHO they could sway a lot of people away from these two...

 

[bird]

We can make sure there are only two candidates in the ballot without propping up a two party system.

Just have an open primary with all candidates, then a runoff with the top two.

Candidates have to campaign meaning they have to put forth policy ideas and visions. From there if a third party is truly viable it will mean trying to legislate by coalition. Since people tend to coalesce around those with similar belief structures it would, imo, mean that two parties would have a tendency to develop with a spectrum within each party as it was before the advent of the Great Prevaricator, Saint Ronnie the Dim-Witted. Combined with the rise of the Vulcans (Newt Gingrich) et al politics has become bloodsport. Radical change would be required to stop that. Sure, ranked choice is a good idea. I don’t think it will make a significant difference. The other issue is money. That ain’t going away any time soon.

 

[Heathen]

A huge part of the problem is that most Americans have been convinced there are only 2 choices, and of course the super PACs on each side make it a no contest affair, even if a 3rd party candidate is leagues better.

I personally align much more with Jill Stein’s policies than that of Kamala Harris. I suppose there are arguments to be made for and against voting 3rd party in this election as with every one.

America feels stuck on a spin cycle with these 2 parties. And of course it’s on purpose. Both at the end of the day are beholden to their donors and rely on exactly what eats away at public trust - keeping the lobbying etc as a central tenet. Is it any wonder folks start to feel disenfranchised?

 

[Infoman]

The problem is that MAGA is entrenched. They aren’t going to consider anyone else, which leaves most other voters for the Democrats. If there were an appealing 3rd party, it would just split the remaining sane voters. Splitting is a bad idea, because if Trump wins and gets his way, there will not be any future credible elections, since they will be dealt with via executive immunity crimes. That would mean no viable Green, Democratic, Libertarian party candidates. The only answer to giving others a voice is Ranked Choice. MAGA would probably not get a majority, so then everyone could vote their conscience. With a threat like MAGA, the enemy of your enemy is your ally. MAGA is the enemy of Democracy.

This is part of the problem I have with this 2 party system, and the extreme over-the-top labeling that goes on from both sides in an effort to demonize an entire huge portion of Americans numbering in the near hundreds of millions... In order to elicit emotional reactions - divide people - and farm votes...

This type of hyperbolic rhetoric has to be removed from our processes... along with all the special interest money.

I have heard loud idiotic voices with too much reach say that everyone that votes Republican in it's current format (MAGA) is a racists / fascists / etc... That's like 75 million Americans!

I have heard loud idiotic voices with too much reach say that everyone that votes Democrat in it's current format (Progressive) is a marxist / communist / etc.... That's like 81 million Americans!

And they call me (even though I admit it to an extent) "Cynical"...

The enemy to Democracy is a billionaire / special interest funded 2 party system that offers the illusion of choice while pitting it's citizens against one another over their petty differences - to farm votes... rather than providing solutions for basic life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness necessities that we can nearly all agree on.

The sooner we kill this 2 party beast the better.

 

[CoolBrees]

This is part of the problem I have with this 2 party system, and the extreme over-the-top labeling that goes on from both sides in an effort to demonize an entire huge portion of Americans numbering in the near hundreds of millions... In order to elicit emotional reactions - divide people - and farm votes...

This type of hyperbolic rhetoric has to be removed from our processes... along with all the special interest money.

I have heard loud idiotic voices with too much reach say that everyone that votes Republican in it's current format (MAGA) is a racists / fascists / etc... That's like 75 million Americans!

I have heard loud idiotic voices with too much reach say that everyone that votes Democrat in it's current format (Progressive) is a marxist / communist... That's like 81 million Americans!

And they call me (even though I admit it to an extent) "Cynical"...

The enemy to Democracy is a billionaire / special interest funded 2 party system that offers the illusion of choice while pitting it's citizens against one another over their petty differences - to farm votes... rather than providing solutions for basic life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness necessities that we can nearly all agree on.

The sooner we kill this 2 party beast the better.

So you are all in on eliminating the Electoral College -

I agree, it gives dirt way too much power and takes away the will of the entire electorate

 

[el caliente]

I love this thread as I know that I’m not alone anymore in my desire to see a viable 3rd party, especially after the crap the two party system has gotten us into.

We need a reboot.

 

[Infoman]

So you are all in on eliminating the Electoral College -

I agree, it gives dirt way too much power and takes away the will of the entire electorate

No the EC stays... 2 Party Power system goes... Primary rules change by the day... We can find a way to get down to a few select candidates without the ruling class and billionaires picking them for us before hand... The EC is central to making sure one portion of the country doesn't have complete policy power over another based on population density alone... It makes sure NYC and LA can't have all policy power for Branson and Billings... It provides balance. The US is a democratic republic... the EC provides for that.

 

[SystemShock]

I personally align much more with Jill Stein’s policies than that of Kamala Harris. I suppose there are arguments to be made for and against voting 3rd party in this election as with every one.

Not as with every other one. If you remotely care about anything Jill Stein stands for, you need to vote against Trump and against the GOP, and that means, vote Democrat.

 

[SystemShock]

No the EC stays...

Then the problem persists.

 

[CoolBrees]

No the EC stays... 2 Party Power system goes... Primary rules change by the day... We can find a way to get down to a few select candidates without the ruling class and billionaires picking them for us before hand... The EC is central to making sure one portion of the country doesn't have complete policy power over another based on population density alone... It makes sure NYC and LA can't have all policy power for Branson and Billings... It provides balance. The US is a democratic republic... the EC provides for that.

Well it did provide for that before electricity

But since you all lost the civil war, things have changed.

Now we allow the massive majority being held hostage by a 20% of the population and forces those that make this country work to follow their wishes.

California matters more than any southern state by a lot. A whole lot.

The electoral college is the only way those with antiquated ideas stay in power.

The R's haven't won the popular vote since '92 so I get why you don't want the popular vote to matter. but it's because you like minority rules since you are in the minority

Hillary was not a strong candidate- she still got 4 million more votes than the bloated diaper wearer. The coward won by getting 40k over five states. Biden won by 7 million but only the EC by 70k across five states. That is bull shirt.

 

[coldseat]

No the EC stays... 2 Party Power system goes... Primary rules change by the day... We can find a way to get down to a few select candidates without the ruling class and billionaires picking them for us before hand... The EC is central to making sure one portion of the country doesn't have complete policy power over another based on population density alone... It makes sure NYC and LA can't have all policy power for Branson and Billings... It provides balance. The US is a democratic republic... the EC provides for that.

You really believe that eliminating political parties is going to eliminate the influence of billionaires and the ruling class (whoever that is) on our elections? You really believe these people aren't taking advantage of the inequity in the EC to achieve their policy goals by doing things that are anti-democratic? All the EC does is make land more valuable than people. Who owns the land? The very billionaires who's influence you hate.

 

[Infoman]

Well it did provide for that before electricity

But since you all lost the civil war, things have changed.

Now we allow the massive majority being held hostage by a 20% of the population and forces those that make this country work to follow their wishes.

California matters more than any southern state by a lot. A whole lot.

The electoral college is the only way those with antiquated ideas stay in power.

The R's haven't won the popular vote since '92 so I get why you don't want the popular vote to matter. but it's because you like minority rules since you are in the minority

Hillary was not a strong candidate- she still got 4 million more votes than the bloated diaper wearer. The coward won by getting 40k over five states. Biden won by 7 million but only the EC by 70k across five states. That is bull shirt.

I don't know who "ya'll" is... and this is a goofy response meant to stir more division... all votes and voices are equal.... not all places are going to have the same values and concerns... If I farm corn.... I am not going to have the same priorities and concerns and values of a wall street broker... this isn't hard.

 

[MT15]

I don't know who "ya'll" is... and this is a goofy response meant to stir more division... all votes and voices are equal....

Not under the EC they aren’t.

 

[CoolBrees]

Alll votes and voices are equal....

Sweet Jeebus no.

You are using that to argue FOR the EC?!?

No they are not because of the electoral college.

How can every vote count when each state gives their entire EC votes to one candidate?

That is the opposite of every vote counts.

Do you think it is fair that CA has the same amount of Senators as WY? I bet you do.

 

[Infoman]

You really believe that eliminating political parties is going to eliminate the influence of billionaires and the ruling class (whoever that is) on our elections? You really believe these people aren't taking advantage of the inequity in the EC to achieve their policy goals by doing things that are anti-democratic? All the EC does is make land more valuable than people. Who owns the land, the very billionaires who's influence you hate.

We have to start somewhere to kill the beast... and I have already explained why the EC is a must... It makes sure that someone like a Stock Brokers vote and concerns (living environment) do not consistently outweigh those of a oyster fisherman... which is what would happen without the EC.

We can fix it all... the preconceived notions have to die first.

 

[samiam5211]

Candidates have to campaign meaning they have to put forth policy ideas and visions. From there if a third party is truly viable it will mean trying to legislate by coalition. Since people tend to coalesce around those with similar belief structures it would, imo, mean that two parties would have a tendency to develop with a spectrum within each party as it was before the advent of the Great Prevaricator, Saint Ronnie the Dim-Witted. Combined with the rise of the Vulcans (Newt Gingrich) et al politics has become bloodsport. Radical change would be required to stop that. Sure, ranked choice is a good idea. I don’t think it will make a significant difference. The other issue is money. That ain’t going away any time soon.

Of course it ain’t happening anytime soon, but it will never happen if we don’t do something.

There is absolutely no philosophical consistence among the positions held by either major party.

The parties aren’t about beliefs or vision, they are about gaining power for the party.

 

[Heathen]

Not as with every other one.

Yes as with every one. See how that works?

There is clearly a discussion to be had around the decision to vote, the lesser evil or third-party every election cycle. This isn’t as binary an issue as some people make it out to be.

If you remotely care about anything Jill Stein stands for, you need to vote against Trump and against the GOP, and that means, vote Democrat.

Much more nuanced than this take portrays also.

For instance, and I’ve mentioned this many times so I’m not going to go into great detail - but someone in a state that is overwhelmingly red has a very valid case to vote for a third-party candidate. If voting third-party is a “throw away “vote, then vote Blue in a state where red votes outnumber those blues by many hundreds of thousands of votes could also be considered to throw away vote as well.

 

[tenordas]

I agree about why he got pushed out - but keep in mind it wasn’t simply polling, it started due to actual concerns about his age-related speaking gaffes. And I was one who wanted him to remain, because he has broad appeal with the working class and the aged and progressives.

But, the fact remains he’s not someone who took advantage of his position in the Senate to make himself wealthy, and I think he truly cares about making things better for the middle and lower classes, which is another reason the big donors had itchy trigger fingers IMO. Several of his changes were nibbling away at them on the margins, and they weren’t overly fond of him.

Corny as he could sound, he truly believed most of it.

You're not serious saying that, are you?

Have you seen the compound where he lives? Do you know his insane net worth? Do you know that he and his wife illegally write off the insane speech fees they receive? Have you not seen the videotape of him bragging about getting the inspector who was investigating him and his son fired by threatening not to give the money to that country until they fired him?

Please, Biden is a poster child for politicians who play the money game. He has been in the pockets of corporations and other countries his entire career.

 

[tenordas]

MAGA is the enemy of Democracy.

Claims the party who just circumvented the entire democratic system by selecting a Presidential candidate that didn't receive a single vote from any regular voting people.

The two parties need to burned to the ground if we have any hope of returning to a Republic that actually represents the people of the country instead of the moneyed of this country.