How Many Future Terrorists Did We Create Yesterday? (1 Viewer)

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mjcouvi

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Thought I'd get this new politics board going with something significant. How long will the US continue to kill innocent civilians in the Middle East?

A U.S. drone strike intended to hit an Islamic State (IS) hideout in Afghanistan killed at least 30 civilians resting after a day’s labor in the fields, officials said on Thursday. The attack on Wednesday night also injured another 40 people after accidentally targeting farmers and laborers who had just finished collecting pine nuts at Wazir Tangi in eastern Nangarhar province, three Afghan officials told Reuters.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politi...ne-strike-afghanistan-kills-civilian-farmers/
 
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mjcouvi

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On Saintsreport when you post a link it usually automatically posts a preview of the article, didn't happen here, fyi
 
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mjcouvi

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It depends on the link. Some do and some don't. You can edit your post to add a blurb, though.
That's what I ended up doing. However, on the newest edition of SR I never experienced posting a link that didn't come with an automatic preview, even if it seemed like an obscure site.

Anyhow...back to the regular killing of innocent Middle Easterners by US drone schmucks.
 
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mjcouvi

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There's no outrage by Americans against other Americans who kill Afghanis, it's just Afghanis afterall. Yet, some random dood kills some Americans on American soil with a gun, yeah, outrage. "GUN CONTROL" the people cry. But meanwhile Americans regularly, not randomly, kill Middle Easterners with bombs without much of an outrage. What am I missing? This discrepancy fascinates me.
 

LA - L.A.

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Collateral damage has been considered an acceptable part of every war since the dawn of warfare. That doesn't mean we should actually accept it. We can only control what we do and I think we are too cavalier and reckless about innocent people being killed in the name of waging war.
 
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GMRfellowtraveller

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Heathen

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There's no outrage by Americans against other Americans who kill Afghanis, it's just Afghanis afterall. Yet, some random dood kills some Americans on American soil with a gun, yeah, outrage. "GUN CONTROL" the people cry. But meanwhile Americans regularly, not randomly, kill Middle Easterners with bombs without much of an outrage. What am I missing? This discrepancy fascinates me.
Yeah..its infuriating. We were the terrorists in that scenatio. We are the terrorists in many more over and over again. But it's fine because were looking for bad brown guys. F that..

Whoever ordered this, in a just world, should stand trial in that country. The problem is that we as Americans have become conditioned to endless war and no outrage over killing other innocent people as long as it isn't here. And if you dare question it all you'll have people saying you're unpatriotic. That's not America, that's a regime of terror by proxy, even if the intent IS good somewhere in all of it. I think that the general intent of our servicemembers is good, but i do not trust those who make decisions for defending us..Grateful for? Yes.....but do not trust.
 

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This isn't anything new.. We have been launching drone strikes for the past 15 years with reckless abandon. Hell, Obama made use of drone strikes more than any other president.

Yeah.. one of the many reasons why Obama was as much a sellout as any other president and if we dont fundamentally change what we do in the world, it will keep happening. It will be hard for the next president, as good as their intent may be, to fight the military industrial complex. Never underestimate the radical fervor of those defending money and power
 

Krodwhodat

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Yeah..its infuriating. We were the terrorists in that scenatio. We are the terrorists in many more over and over again. But it's fine because were looking for bad brown guys. F that..

Whoever ordered this, in a just world, should stand trial in that country. The problem is that we as Americans have become conditioned to endless war and no outrage over killing other innocent people as long as it isn't here. And if you dare question it all you'll have people saying you're unpatriotic. That's not America, that's a regime of terror by proxy, even if the intent IS good somewhere in all of it. I think that the general intent of our servicemembers is good, but i do not trust those who make decisions for defending us..Grateful for? Yes.....but do not trust.
I think you are missing an important point. I’m not here to tell you whether or not it’s right to be there but as far as why the drone use is the protection of American soldiers. If no drones then we are inserting men and women, and in war you rather see anyone die other than your own soldiers. Using a drone ends the chance of soldiers death as well as POWs. Just my thoughts and understanding as a veteran.
 

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I think you are missing an important point. I’m not here to tell you whether or not it’s right to be there but as far as why the drone use is the protection of American soldiers. If no drones then we are inserting men and women, and in war you rather see anyone die other than your own soldiers. Using a drone ends the chance of soldiers death as well as POWs. Just my thoughts and understanding as a veteran.
I completely understand the intent (hopefully for the most part) isn't malicious. However, and without getting into the weeds over my view that we shouldn't be occupying and bombing target individuals in another country anyway, I think repeated 'collateral damage' as they say is terroristic in nature.

I mean, let's just play out the same exact scenario with countries switched. Say Afghanistan was the most powerful country in the world. They were targeting very bad people here in the US. Afghanistan has been flying drones/jets over our country and bombing for more than a decade. In the process, hundreds (at least) of innocent people have been killed. Moms, Dads, the elderly, children...

Is that still acceptable? If not, then why is it diffferent over there? And if the US military accidentally bombed a target here in our country that happened to be the wrong target..and killed many innocent people..is it acceptable to say it was for the protection of the troops?

No entity should be above humanity. Right now, I would have to say that I can't support the American military committing such atrocities. There is unfortunately a long and dark history there. Realize I'm not scapegoating everyone or saying that i'm not grateful for those who do defend us from danger. But if we can spend 700 Billion a year with some of the most advancefd technology mankind has ever seen--we can limit these tragedies without someone saying it's unrealistic.
 
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MT15

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Yeah.. one of the many reasons why Obama was as much a sellout as any other president and if we dont fundamentally change what we do in the world, it will keep happening. It will be hard for the next president, as good as their intent may be, to fight the military industrial complex. Never underestimate the radical fervor of those defending money and power
I agree that the military industrial complex will be very difficult to dismantle, and we were warned about it by Ike as he left office a long, long time ago. We do need some sort of fundamental change.

I am a bit at a loss, though, that you lump Obama in with “every other president” which seems to indicate you think his presidency was the same as some real stinkers, like Bush the younger or Trump. Obama can be fairly criticized, don’t get me wrong about that. I just don’t think you can fairly say there’s no difference. Maybe that’s not what you meant?
 

Krodwhodat

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I completely understand the intent (hopefully for the most part) isn't malicious. However, and without getting into the weeds over my view that we shouldn't be occupying and bombing target individuals in another country anyway, I think repeated 'collateral damage' as they say is terroristic in nature.

I mean, let's just play out the same exact scenario with countries switched. Say Afghanistan was the most powerful country in the world. They were targeting very bad people here in the US. Afghanistan has been flying drones/jets over our country and bombing for more than a decade. In the process, hundreds (at least) of innocent people have been killed. Moms, Dads, the elderly, children...

Is that still acceptable? If not, then why is it diffferent over there?
It comes down to the belief as to why you are doing something and the intent behind it. We aren’t just sending in drones with no targets. We are trying to take out specific things and people that we feel can be a National/world threat down the road. It could be seen as terrorism in the eyes of some but even when terrorist fire rockets into Israel with no actual target or purpose other than terrorizing people the people firing the rockets don’t see it as terrorism they see it as defending their religion or life belief. In closing the difference imo is one is aiming at a specific target an having collateral damage vs just bombing a country with no target but to just kill life for religious belief or what ever it may be.
 

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I agree that the military industrial complex will be very difficult to dismantle, and we were warned about it by Ike as he left office a long, long time ago. We do need some sort of fundamental change.

I am a bit at a loss, though, that you lump Obama in with “every other president” which seems to indicate you think his presidency was the same as some real stinkers, like Bush the younger or Trump. Obama can be fairly criticized, don’t get me wrong about that. I just don’t think you can fairly say there’s no difference. Maybe that’s not what you meant?
I see what you're saying. I wasn't insinuating that Obama was on the level of a Bush or Trump insofar as their domestic policy. Far from that, clearly. And 'every other president' being an admittedly shallow generalization of every president I can remember in my lifetime. But I do think that he wasn't any better in FP, at least based on what he said he wanted to do and did. If Trump had done what he said he wanted to do, even though I think Trump is more morally inept than most any President in history--then I would at least give him credit there .
 

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It comes down to the belief as to why you are doing something and the intent behind it. We aren’t just sending in drones with no targets. We are trying to take out specific things and people that we feel can be a National/world threat down the road. It could be seen as terrorism in the eyes of some but even when terrorist fire rockets into Israel with no actual target or purpose other than terrorizing people the people firing the rockets don’t see it as terrorism they see it as defending their religion or life belief. In closing the difference imo is one is aiming at a specific target an having collateral damage vs just bombing a country with no target but to just kill life for religious belief or what ever it may be.
Well again, what would be your judgment on Afghanistan doing the same here if their agreed upon "intent" was to target individuals here in the US, and it wasn't a religion issue? Because by your logic, it would in fact be justified.
 

Krodwhodat

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I agree that the military industrial complex will be very difficult to dismantle, and we were warned about it by Ike as he left office a long, long time ago. We do need some sort of fundamental change.

I am a bit at a loss, though, that you lump Obama in with “every other president” which seems to indicate you think his presidency was the same as some real stinkers, like Bush the younger or Trump. Obama can be fairly criticized, don’t get me wrong about that. I just don’t think you can fairly say there’s no difference. Maybe that’s not what you meant?
What did Obama do different than Bush or Trump with the military? He used drones in foreign countries, he continued the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, meddled in Syria and Libya and continued black ops missions all over the world. Believe me, in 15 years from now Obama’s presidency will be graded differently and it’s won’t be nearly as good as you think it looks today just as Bush jr doesn’t look as bad. With that said i would take Obama in a minute over what the Dems have running right now.
 

Krodwhodat

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I agree that the military industrial complex will be very difficult to dismantle, and we were warned about it by Ike as he left office a long, long time ago. We do need some sort of fundamental change.

I am a bit at a loss, though, that you lump Obama in with “every other president” which seems to indicate you think his presidency was the same as some real stinkers, like Bush the younger or Trump. Obama can be fairly criticized, don’t get me wrong about that. I just don’t think you can fairly say there’s no difference. Maybe that’s not what you meant?

I also think you and many use what he said incorrectly. It was more of a warning about the Cold War and not letting the arms race allow us to lose site of other important things the country needed. He very much understood the need to keep and maintain a very highly skilled and high powered military as well as maintaining innovation as to not fall behind other powers in the world. He saw the US going into WW2 and how our unpreparedness and lack of funding should has cost us the war.
 

Dadsdream

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If we strike, there's always a chance of killing innocents.
I never really cared for the " We are creating terrorists" mantra.
There are organizations that deliberately indoctrinate whole segments of the Middle East, deliberately creating terrorists and reimbursing the families of suicide bombers.
Before we indulge in self-flagellation, let's call for the end of Hezbollah, for example.
Would we be attacked if we sit on our hands and do nothing?
I believe we would, because the terrorists' ideology is so at odds with our culture they'll attack us no matter what we do.
If we don't strike, it's "Appeasement." See Munich Agreement, "Peace for our time!"- Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, 1938
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
 

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