Glass half-full - Trump's 2nd Term (1 Viewer)

[porculator]

Pretty bummed by Tuesday's result, which is why I'm coping here for the first time in years

I personally think it will be a disaster due to the man's complete disdain for anyone with intelligence or a moral compass, and he may dismantle our institutions as we know them.

That said, it's good to have hope and look at potential positives. What good could come out of this term? I'll start.

World affairs
Not going to lie, worried about Ukraine and how that shakes out. But there is truth to the fact that no one started any wars when Trump was in office. Whether he is respected or not, he is an impulsive idiot with control of the most lethal military in world history, so maybe others behave a little more when he is around.
Also the predictability of a Biden administration is not always a good thing. Adversaries have a good idea of how we will respond to their actions, and allies know we will back them up even if they aren't pulling their weight. I fear that Trump actually leaves NATO, but the threat of leaving in order to get Europe to pull their weight is a useful tool.
He also thinks like a dictator, and has a transactional mindset, that in theory can work better with other dictators, than just giving them all the cold shoulder and bringing them into each other's arms which is what has happened since 2022. Know your enemy, etc. Of course this gets offset by his enormous vulnerability to flattery. Again, trying to find positives though.
And I will admit I now feel like nuclear war is less likely, which is a silver lining to Ukraine getting thrown under the bus.

 

[jdn9201]

As I said in another thread, I hope some of the spending cuts in P2025 actually happen. We are drowning in debt. Our TBILL is close to toilet paper IMO. It’s a good thing the people running the world markets don’t think like me, but one day they will.

Also say what you want about Trump but his ability to garner support from a wide variety of people is astounding. Hispanics, women, young people etc all voted for him in much higher numbers than the left anticipated. Maybe Trump can actually use whatever that thing he has to bring people together in government for good? One can hope.

 

[efil4]

As I said in another thread, I hope some of the spending cuts in P2025 actually happen. We are drowning in debt. Our TBILL is close to toilet paper IMO. It’s a good thing the people running the world markets don’t think like me, but one day they will.

Also say what you want about Trump but his ability to garner support from a wide variety of people is astounding. Hispanics, women, young people etc all voted for him in much higher numbers than the left anticipated. Maybe Trump can actually use whatever that thing he has to bring people together in government for good? One can hope.

what spending cuts in P2025 exactly?

as for him being fiscal- you dont know him, do you?

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/trump-king-of-debt-224642

to the OP:

i think one positive is Europe/NATO will now agree on increased defensive spending- but thats really all i got.

I think if the actual deportation thing comes to fruition, the dismantling of government departments and employees- the economic consequences are going to take decades to recover from. Unemployment, agriculture harvesting - all translate to really really bad economic situation.

 

[bird]

As I said in another thread, I hope some of the spending cuts in P2025 actually happen. We are drowning in debt. Our TBILL is close to toilet paper IMO. It’s a good thing the people running the world markets don’t think like me, but one day they will.

Also say what you want about Trump but his ability to garner support from a wide variety of people is astounding. Hispanics, women, young people etc all voted for him in much higher numbers than the left anticipated. Maybe Trump can actually use whatever that thing he has to bring people together in government for good? One can hope.

No, we are not drowning in debt. Yes, corporate debt and private debt are a mess. Unsurprising due to easy access for years to credit.

Cuts in federal spending laid out by whomever never state what the unintended consequences of such cuts would be. How many would lose jobs, how many states would be negatively impacted which would also likely include job cuts? Nothing is ever discussed regarding the law of unintended consequences.

How many businesses hold federal government contracts? How many second- and third-tier suppliers and contractors service the large contractors holding federal contracts? How many states, particularly Republican controlled states with low tax rates have the revenue to pick up the slack which they would need to do?

Project 2025 is a libertarian (read: spoiled 4 year old child) and religionist wet dream.

The imbecility known as Eloon Musk said cutting 2 Trillion would hurt for a while. It wouldn’t hurt his azz nor the rest of the wealthy. It would be damaging as well as potentially deadly for multiple millions. Including many who voted for Trump.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I’m a big fan of his plan to deal with the homeless crisis. If you haven't seen it watch the video where he lays out the plan. I have my doubts if he will actually do it or if its another big false promises, but I think it can serve as the foundation of a really good program to provide services and mental health aid to the homeless.

It has a bit of a Hooverville feel to it which is disturbing, but I think the right people could make it work.

 

[samiam5211]

We are going to accelerate into the tech world.

Elon's AI will be our leader soon.

That might end up ok.

 

[bird]

We are going to accelerate into the tech world.

Elon's AI will be our leader soon.

That might end up ok.

Unlikely to be OK. Tech is like anything else. It is a tool. Tools cost money. So, those who can afford tech will get it. Those who can’t, won’t. As for the way tech is used? Well, we have seen and are seeing the fruits of a continuing disintegrating society due to tech and the rise of charlatans due to it.

 

[bird]

I’m a big fan of his plan to deal with the homeless crisis. If you haven't seen it watch the video where he lays out the plan. I have my doubts if he will actually do it or if its another big false promises, but I think it can serve as the foundation of a really good program to provide services and mental health aid to the homeless.

It has a bit of a Hooverville feel to it which is disturbing, but I think the right people could make it work.

As there is likely to be no monies provided for the programs I will not hold my breath.

 

[samiam5211]

Unlikely to be OK. Tech is like anything else. It is a tool. Tools cost money. So, those who can afford tech will get it. Those who can’t, won’t. As for the way tech is used? Well, we have seen and are seeing the fruits of a continuing disintegrating society due to tech and the rise of charlatans due to it.

I agree.

I'd have preferred that someone other than billionaires be in charge when we have to figure out the long term impacts of flipping the automation switch, but sadly that's what we're getting.

I have no doubt that it will still be great at first, so maybe the shirt won't hit the fan until we're dead at least.

 

[TampaJoe]

No, we are not drowning in debt. Yes, corporate debt and private debt are a mess. Unsurprising due to easy access for years to credit.

Cuts in federal spending laid out by whomever never state what the unintended consequences of such cuts would be. How many would lose jobs, how many states would be negatively impacted which would also likely include job cuts? Nothing is ever discussed regarding the law of unintended consequences.

How many businesses hold federal government contracts? How many second- and third-tier suppliers and contractors service the large contractors holding federal contracts? How many states, particularly Republican controlled states with low tax rates have the revenue to pick up the slack which they would need to do?

Project 2025 is a libertarian (read: spoiled 4 year old child) and religionist wet dream.

The imbecility known as Eloon Musk said cutting 2 Trillion would hurt for a while. It wouldn’t hurt his azz nor the rest of the wealthy. It would be damaging as well as potentially deadly for multiple millions. Including many who voted for Trump.

If you could cut 10 percent from the federal budget without diminishing services, would you do it?

I get the concern with unintended consequences but that is always a concern isnt it?

 

[bird]

If you could cut 10 percent from the federal budget without diminishing services, would you do it?

I get the concern with unintended consequences but that is always a concern isnt it?

A hypothetical. Define diminishing services.

 

[Lapaz]

what spending cuts in P2025 exactly?

as for him being fiscal- you dont know him, do you?

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/trump-king-of-debt-224642

to the OP:

i think one positive is Europe/NATO will now agree on increased defensive spending- but thats really all i got.

I think if the actual deportation thing comes to fruition, the dismantling of government departments and employees- the economic consequences are going to take decades to recover from. Unemployment, agriculture harvesting - all translate to really really bad economic situation.

It's a good idea to try to find some positives, but I have to refute this NATO increase benefit coming from Trump. Trump will take credit, but NATO has been increasing it's expenditures ever since 2015, before he took office.

It has ramped up dramatically recently. Table 3 of the following link shows that NATO increased it's real spending by 8.3% in 2023, while the U.S. only increased by 2.83%, so most came from other NATO countries.
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2023/7/pdf/230707-def-exp-2023-en.pdf

The last link only covered through 2023, but the following covers 2024, and it shows that NATO increased dramatically in 2024 by 14%, and 9% in 2023. I suspect most of the 2024 increase was also from other countries.

NATO combined defense expenditure 2024 | Statista

The combined defense expenditure for members of NATO was approximately 1.47 trillion U.S.

www.statista.com

As far as good, I think it'll deter some people from illegally entering the country, because we need border control. Of course I expect his deportation plans will be draconian, and terrible on balance, so at least fewer people will want to come here. Oh, is that a negative? Okay, it may result in less drugs passing the borders.

 

[Sendai]

No, we are not drowning in debt. Yes, corporate debt and private debt are a mess. Unsurprising due to easy access for years to credit.

Cuts in federal spending laid out by whomever never state what the unintended consequences of such cuts would be. How many would lose jobs, how many states would be negatively impacted which would also likely include job cuts? Nothing is ever discussed regarding the law of unintended consequences.

How many businesses hold federal government contracts? How many second- and third-tier suppliers and contractors service the large contractors holding federal contracts? How many states, particularly Republican controlled states with low tax rates have the revenue to pick up the slack which they would need to do?

Project 2025 is a libertarian (read: spoiled 4 year old child) and religionist wet dream.

The imbecility known as Eloon Musk said cutting 2 Trillion would hurt for a while. It wouldn’t hurt his azz nor the rest of the wealthy. It would be damaging as well as potentially deadly for multiple millions. Including many who voted for Trump.

$31 trillion in debt isn’t a problem? Debt service is about to equal the military budget.

 

[TampaJoe]

A hypothetical. Define diminishing services.

A hypothetical. No reduction in the level of service is perhaps a better way to say it.

 

[bird]

$31 trillion in debt isn’t a problem? Debt service is about to equal the military budget.

As long as we control our currency it isn’t. And the amount held internally is much more than what is held externally. It is an exercise in RW circle-jerkery because when Republicans are in power they spend like drunken sailors while cutting revenue. What successful business spends more while deliberately trying to get less revenue?

The military budget is never the whole story. The defense budget including all of Homeland Security (including off the books espionage actions), all military including DARPA, all VA expenses, ICE, Border Patrol, etc is much bigger.

Oh, let’s not forget FEMA.

So, what gets cut? What happens when it gets cut? Who is put out of work? How many will be put out of work? Howzabout states that get hammered with natural disasters start socking away money to pay for rebuilding? No, that’s right, it is more important to cut taxes. Sorry, I forgot.

What is it about the Right that they don’t understand the concept of the political economy needing infinite growth? What is it about the Right that they cannot grasp that in the political economy, the purpose of private ownership is not to employ people? Private ownership is not and never has been the best way to distribute and utilize resources.

If anyone says, “it’s simple”, they are delusional. It isn’t even complicated. It is complex. There is a world of difference between the two.

 

[bird]

A hypothetical. No reduction in the level of service is perhaps a better way to say it.

Cut your spending 10%. See what you will do without.

 

[TampaJoe]

Cut your spending 10%. See what you will do without.

I have done it before in business. I believe we could cut 10% out of many programs while still mantining the same level of service. If that could be acieved, would you do it?

 

[MT15]

I don’t know why we are even talking about this. I have seen zero evidence that Trump cares to control spending even a little bit. Not one little bit.

Every single appointment announced so far is about rewarding personal loyalty to Trump.

It was just announced he’s creating a new department for government efficiency and putting Musk and Ramaswamy in charge of it. Wonder how much money these 2 will spend?

What a freaking joke.