Finger gun gets you a felony (1 Viewer)

[Intensesaint]

Kansas middle school girl who pointed finger gun at classmates charged with a felony

The student in Overland Park, Kansas, was allegedly asked by a classmate if she could kill five people in class, who would they be.

www.nbcnews.com

No words for this one. I know kids are getting suspended and some even expelled over pointing their fingers at others in the shape of a gun, but felony charges?

 

[SystemShock]

"Too often there are reports of violence in schools and inevitably questions about what could or should have been done to prevent the tragedy. Threats in schools are taken very seriously and treated appropriately," police said in the release.

Yes, nothing prevents violence like arresting a 13 year old and charging them with a felony count of finger pointing.

 

[JimEverett]

There had to be (or should be, given her arrest) some indication that she planned to carry out the threat. Otherwise, why not charge her with assault - which would make sense given the emphasis in the article on the fact that it made the ones targeted fearful of harm.

 

[V Chip]

The felony charge is ridiculous.

She definitely needs some counseling, not only for the minor (IMO) finger gun pointing but for the fact that she was one of the ones she said she would kill.

 

[Intensesaint]

The felony charge is ridiculous.

She definitely need some counseling, not only for the minor (IMO) finger gun pointing but for the fact that she was one of the ones she said she would kill.

Agreed on the counseling. Apparently from the story another student asked her who she would kill(in a setting of students just standing around) and she did the finger gun at four other students then herself. How this translates to felony charges I will never know.

 

[Ayo]

this is the confluence of a few different factors. First, the 'resource officer' and the extension of the police presence in schools, which adds a dimension of levied charges and investigations. Secondly, the school probably feels like if something is going to happen - fearing the worst - they need to demonstrate control and perceptions of safety. Finally, the article said that administrators were involved and Shawnee Mission School District has had its share of history with zero tolerance policies and over-corrective measures for countering bullying. Just a cursory glance suggests that the district relies on zero tolerance policies.

I've never been a fan of zero tolerance policies and the types of discipline that results - because it isn't just about those policies, it bleeds into other disciplinary actions as well. But this standardized approach protects against litigation (allegedly) and makes it easier for administrators to dole out discipline. And I find that particularly irksome, because it's an administrator-proof approach to training campus admin. Rather than caring for students and situations on a case by case basis, it homogenizes discipline and attitudes about discipline become quite fixed.

After seeing so many kids end up locked up, instead of finding ways to keep them in school, I don't buy the justification in this case at all. This strikes me as pretty extreme.

 

[wardorican]

this is the confluence of a few different factors. First, the 'resource officer' and the extension of the police presence in schools, which adds a dimension of levied charges and investigations. Secondly, the school probably feels like if something is going to happen - fearing the worst - they need to demonstrate control and perceptions of safety. Finally, the article said that administrators were involved and Shawnee Mission School District has had its share of history with zero tolerance policies and over-corrective measures for countering bullying. Just a cursory glance suggests that the district relies on zero tolerance policies.

I've never been a fan of zero tolerance policies and the types of discipline that results - because it isn't just about those policies, it bleeds into other disciplinary actions as well. But this standardized approach protects against litigation (allegedly) and makes it easier for administrators to dole out discipline. And I find that particularly irksome, because it's an administrator-proof approach to training campus admin. Rather than caring for students and situations on a case by case basis, it homogenizes discipline and attitudes about discipline become quite fixed.

After seeing so many kids end up locked up, instead of finding ways to keep them in school, I don't buy the justification in this case at all. This strikes me as pretty extreme.

Agreed. Seems petty and mean. For no good reason.

 

[Ayo]

Agreed. Seems petty and mean. For no good reason.

In my experience, there are a *lot* of poor administrators and a given district's approach to that ineptitude is to provide as many administrator-proof measures in their policies to remove a lot of the discretion. Not sure if that's the case here, but it is an issue generally.

The complexion of school administration is so disheartening.

 

[JimEverett]

In my experience, there are a *lot* of poor administrators and a given district's approach to that ineptitude is to provide as many administrator-proof measures in their policies to remove a lot of the discretion. Not sure if that's the case here, but it is an issue generally.

The complexion of school administration is so disheartening.

Suppose there is more to it though - which seems to be what the police are saying.

Not trying to be argumentative, just wondering if there is a level where past actions force school administrators to call the cops due to this particular situation.

I am just thinking about possibilities like - suppose she had brought a gun to school in the past, suppose she had written stories describing in detail how she would hurt some students, and/or she had threatened some "low level" action against a student/students and carried it out.

I know you know a lot more about these things so I am interested - but for me if there had been some things sort of like those suppositions then I don't see a problem putting her in the juvenile system over the finger gun.

 

[Ayo]

Suppose there is more to it though - which seems to be what the police are saying.

Not trying to be argumentative, just wondering if there is a level where past actions force school administrators to call the cops due to this particular situation.

yes, there is. I don't know enough about this situation and there might very well be information that makes something more than school-based discipline. Whether that came up in an investigation or something that exists on the record.

Even then, something that supports a charge of felony would have to be pretty severe - but that isn't always the case.

There was one kid I worked with who was locked up and they tried to get him on felony charges of identity theft, because was accused of nicking a wallet during a fight at the Contraband Days festival in SW LA. He wasn't fighting. He didn't steal the wallet. Rather, it was a 20-year old 'friend' who gave up this juvenile's name because he was a minor and figured he'd cop to it.

But they tried to charge a felony, and he didn't relent. Eventually got off, found innocent of all charges, but not until after he'd spent a month locked up, out of school and away from family.

That's just a single case - but there are cases that I knew of or worked on that a felony was *definitely* applicable.

"Past actions" I don't know. I would have to think that there is something pretty damning on record for those past actions to legitimately lead to a felony charge.

As far as "calling the cops" - they get called pretty often, actually. Some of these things are pretty mundane, imo - but not all of them. In some cases, it's certainly merited

 

[samiam5211]

Anytime there is a news story involving a school, you have to keep in mind that the school is charged with protecting the student's privacy.

There is almost always more to the story, and the only side of the story that can be legally told to the press is the student's. At least at first.

It is very likely that there is more to this story than we are currently aware of.