Durham investigation (Update: Sussman acquitted) (1 Viewer)

[SaintForLife]

It looks like the first shoe has dropped with the Durham investigation with the Clinesmith plea deal. Clinesmith wasn't a low level FBI employee involved in the Crossfire Hurricane investigation.

He worked with Strzok to arrange sending an FBI agent into Trump-Flynn briefing, was on the Mueller team, he took part in the Papadopoulos interviews, and he participated in the FISA process.



From the NYT article:

Ex-F.B.I. Lawyer Expected to Plead Guilty in Review of Russia Inquiry (Published 2020)

Prosecutors did not reveal any evidence of the kind of broad anti-Trump conspiracy among law enforcement officials that the president has long alleged.

www.nytimes.com

I wonder who else knew about the lies?

 

[SaintForLife]

I don’t think this is new information, is it? Wasn’t this exact thing found by Horowitz quite some time ago?

Also, I saw some lawyer types saying it’s pretty funny watching people who defended Flynn (should have never been prosecuted over a “process crime”) go ape over this.

I think Herridge is being very disingenuous with her tweet. IIRC, there is zero evidence of involvement from anyone else with this.

Yep, looked it up: per the AP:

“Yet the five-page charging document is limited in scope and does not allege criminal wrongdoing by anyone other than Clinesmith, nor does it offer evidence to support Trump’s assertions that the Russia probe was tainted by widespread political bias in the FBI. It makes clear that the FBI relied on Clinesmith’s own misrepresentations as it sought to renew its surveillance of former Trump campaign aide Carter Page.”

This is bad by him, for sure, but it amounts to an overzealous action by a single person.

Yes it is actually new information. Clinesmith pled gulity yesterday with his plea deal. You constantly complain about Herridge, but you have never shown that anything she's reported on was untrue. I understand why you don't like her. She hasn't went along with the Russian media narrative that you are used to.

Are you really trying to compare a high level FBI agent changing a government document to give an opposite impression of the facts to use in a FISA application to illegally spy on an American citizen to Flynn who even the FBI officials who interviewed him didn't think he was lying? Do you think altering an official government document is a process crime?

Why would the document allege anything about anyone else when only Clinesmith was charged? You aren't supposed to make filings with a bunch of innuendo unsupported by evidence like Mueller did. This doesn't appear to be the end of Durham's investigation so we will see what comes next.

 

[SaintForLife]

Yep I am sure there will be.


Because the DOJ doesn't normally do a forking thing that could be considered political this close to an election.

But that just means the DOJ that has stepped in the way everything and everyone that had a problem with this administration will continue to do so.

So yeah it fits the game plan!

Do you remember the DOJ saying anything about emails two weeks out last time? No they did not because that is considered wrong to influence political sides that close to an election. Infact that is why the investigation into Russian ties to the trump campaign or Flynn was not talked about before the election because that is the way things are supposed to work.

That was Comey and the FBI never gives press conferences about investing that is the DOJ's job because they are the ones that will file charges.

So in essence Barr will be unethical Barr!

I believe the rule you are referring to is within 60 days of an election and I think we are around 80 days out. Also, Barr said that Biden isn't a target so I'm not sure if that rule would even apply with this situation.

 

[MT15]

SFL, the only “new” thing here is that he is being charged and is pleading guilty. We’ve known what he did since at least the Horowitz investigation. See UTJ’s comments.

Flynn absolutely lied and the fact that the FBI agents who interviewed him tried to give him an ”out” doesn’t change that fact. Isn’t it interesting that you give total credence to those particular agents, while thinking the worst of others?

What Clinesmith did was definitely wrong, but it’s far from a “conspiracy to spy on a campaign” that the subject wasn’t even a part of, like Herridge is trying to imply. She has a definite agenda, and you are an avid consumer of that agenda. You are doing the exact same thing you are accusing me and everyone else of doing.

You should prepare yourself for the possibility that this is mostly it from Durham. I’ve been reading rumors that he hasn’t come up with anything more than Horowitz already found. We shall see what happens.

Oh, and I think the general convention always followed by the DOJ is 90 days out from an election, (at least until Comey broke the convention to damage Clinton) and Barr has said he isn’t going to abide by it anyway.

 

[The moose]

I believe the rule you are referring to is within 60 days of an election and I think we are around 80 days out. Also, Barr said that Biden isn't a target so I'm not sure if that rule would even apply with this situation.

So you are saying that the only reason the Russia investigation was not made public was because it was 60 days out?

Or that the DOJ under the Obama administration was a tad bit more ethical? You know like the Obama administration respected the election. Oh wait that answered itself when they started yanking up mail boxes!

 

[CoolBrees]

Well I’m glad I know what Undercover Huber has to say, but until I hear from Techno fog I am not going to know what to think.

Has he made copies and highlighted them yet?

 

[Farb]

I know we don't like to shine light on the hypocrisy of the left, but you guys are acting like this cool cat didn't exist and wasn't his Presidents's "Wingman" (his words not mine). His name is Eric Holder. Remember him.

 

[The moose]

I know we don't like to shine light on the hypocrisy of the left, but you guys are acting like this cool cat didn't exist and wasn't his Presidents's "Wingman" (his words not mine). His name is Eric Holder. Remember him.

That is funny dude!

Yes they made Congress work but the did not blatantly get criminals off or shut down any investigation.

It is funny the dismantling of DOJ. career lawyers that looked into anything the trump administration did not like got shown the door to shut the work down.

Yep it took a long time to get all the DOJ in line lot of good people lost their jobs to get to this point.

 

[SaintForLife]

So you are saying that the only reason the Russia investigation was not made public was because it was 60 days out?

Or that the DOJ under the Obama administration was a tad bit more ethical? You know like the Obama administration respected the election. Oh wait that answered itself when they started yanking up mail boxes!

Are you really going to act like the nothing was leaked about the Russia investigation before the 2016 election?

After the DNC collaborated with some Ukrainian officials, the NYT ran a story that said they were investigating Manafort which they retracted after the election.

The following day the FBI leaked a story to CNN that they were investigating Manafort.

Unamed Intelligence Officials leaked this story September 23rd:

U.S. intel officials probe ties between Trump adviser and Kremlin

Carter Page speaks at the graduation ceremony for the New Economic School in Moscow in July. U.S. intelligence officials are seeking to determine whether an American businessman identified by Donald Trump as one of his foreign policy advisers has opened up private communications with senior...

www.yahoo.com

October 31st:

Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I. Sees No Clear Link to Russia (Published 2016)

After lengthy investigations, officials also believe that a hacking of Democratic emails was aimed at disrupting the election rather than electing Mr. Trump.

www.google.com

Harry Reid wrote a letter to Comey talking about explosive allegations between Trump and Russia before the election.

A veteran spy has given the FBI information alleging a Russian operation to cultivate Donald Trump

Has the bureau investigated this material?

www.motherjones.com

 

[SaintForLife]

So you are saying that the only reason the Russia investigation was not made public was because it was 60 days out?

Or that the DOJ under the Obama administration was a tad bit more ethical? You know like the Obama administration respected the election. Oh wait that answered itself when they started yanking up mail boxes!

The Obama administration respected the election so much that they spied on his party's opposition candidate.

 

[The moose]

The Obama administration respected the election so much that they spied on his party's opposition candidate.

You know that the is a crock of shirt!

You know everything found in this is minor bullshirt. Or you would have some much more creditable sources than the ones you post regularly.

You know this is making the press right now to try and justify the last election and influence this one.

You can tow the line but even you deep down inside know this is absolutely timed for full effect on this coming election.

 

[The moose]

Are you really going to act like the nothing was leaked about the Russia investigation before the 2016 election?

After the DNC collaborated with some Ukrainian officials, the NYT ran a story that said they were investigating Manafort which they retracted after the election.

The following day the FBI leaked a story to CNN that they were investigating Manafort.

Unamed Intelligence Officials leaked this story September 23rd:

U.S. intel officials probe ties between Trump adviser and Kremlin

Carter Page speaks at the graduation ceremony for the New Economic School in Moscow in July. U.S. intelligence officials are seeking to determine whether an American businessman identified by Donald Trump as one of his foreign policy advisers has opened up private communications with senior...

www.yahoo.com

October 31st:

Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I. Sees No Clear Link to Russia (Published 2016)

After lengthy investigations, officials also believe that a hacking of Democratic emails was aimed at disrupting the election rather than electing Mr. Trump.

www.google.com

Harry Reid wrote a letter to Comey talking about explosive allegations between Trump and Russia before the election.

A veteran spy has given the FBI information alleging a Russian operation to cultivate Donald Trump

Has the bureau investigated this material?

www.motherjones.com

Hey guy does any of that predate 7/13?

You know why? That is the date Trump actually asked for Russian help on the news! Ask for help from Russian hackers on July the 13th.

So yeah if the press is later talking about his involvement with Russia it was self inflicted.

Oh almost forgot the link

Trump asked Russia to find Clinton’s emails. On or around the same day, Russians targeted her accounts

"Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing, I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press," Trump said in a July 27, 2016, news conference.

www.pbs.org

 

[MT15]

The Obama administration respected the election so much that they spied on his party's opposition candidate.

This is not true, however many times you (and Trump) say it.

 

[MT15]

I know we don't like to shine light on the hypocrisy of the left, but you guys are acting like this cool cat didn't exist and wasn't his Presidents's "Wingman" (his words not mine). His name is Eric Holder. Remember him.

If you’re going to bring him up and attempt to derail the thread with whataboutism, you should at least make the effort to show what Holder did that compares to what Barr has done. Otherwise, its just pure snark.

So tell us when Holder tried to lessen a sentence recommended by the DOJ against someone who had incriminating evidence against Obama? Or when he tried to overturn a guilty plea from a member of the Obama Administration? Or did he do something else similar? What is the exact parallel you are trying to draw?

 

[MT15]

Ok, this is for the lawyers, Chuck and Taylor, or others, help me understand what they are saying:





And finally, this:

The Clinesmith Information Suggests that John Durham Misunderstands His Investigation - emptywheel

In the Kevin Clinesmith Information, John Durham made the same mistake that DOJ IG made, mistaking a counterintelligence investigation for a criminal one. His entire investigation may be based on embarrassing mistake.

www.emptywheel.net

 

[MT15]

Well, even I can understand this quote, lol:

 

[SaintForLife]

This is not true, however many times you (and Trump) say it.

We know for a fact that the Obama administration spied on the Trump campaign with the FISA on Carter Page according to the IG report.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf

The FISA warrants gave the FBI the authority to spy on Page and it gave them access to internal Trump communications. The FISA warrants also authorized physical searches.

The FBI also had informant Stefan Halper with targeting Page and Halper also asked for Trump campaign information. Halper also secretly recorded conversations with Trump campaign member Sam Clovis.

FBI agent Joe Pientka, supervisor of Crossfire Hurricane, used what was supposed to be a private security briefing to then-candidate Trump and Flynn to assess Flynn in anticipation of a subject interview.

The IG report said that the FBI viewed the briefing of candidate Trump and his advisors as a possible opportunity to collect information potentially relevant to the Crossfire Hurricane and Flynn investigations. According to the IG report, Trump and Flynn’s statements were “added to the Crossfire Hurricane system and uploaded in the FBI’s case management system.”

The IG report said “the FBI had several other CHSs with either a connection to candidate Trump or a role in the Trump campaign.” CHS is a confidential human source.

The IG report also said they “also learned about a different CHS who at one point held a position in the Trump campaign,” The Crossfire Hurricane team said they decided not to use that source, but the IG found an email that said something different: “After careful consideration, the CROSSFIRE HURRICANE team has decided, at this time, it is best to utilize your CHS as a passive listening post regarding any observations [he/she] has of the campaign so far,” Also: “Base[d] on current, on-going operations/developments in the CROSSFIRE HURRICANE investigation, we are not going to directly task or sensitize the CHS at this point in time. We appreciate [your] assistance in this matter and remain interested in any campaign related reporting that you guys may receive from the CHS during normal debriefs.”

The IG report found another CHS in an October 2016 email written by an intelligence analyst on the Crossfire Hurricane team to FBI agent Pientka: “email copied information out of a CHS’s Delta file stating that the CHS is ‘scheduled to attend a ‘private’ national security forum with Donald Trump’ in October 2016, after which the CHS will provide ‘an update on the Trump meeting."

The IG report also revealed multiple CHSs involved in either the Trump transition team or administration.

 

[CoolBrees]

SFL-

Honest question.

Do you accept as fact or reject the notion that Russia interfered in the 2016 election to help Donald Trump win?

And please don’t get into collusion, as isn’t relevant to my question. I am not asking about collusion or even if Trump’s campaign was in on it.

Simply do you believe the intelligence communities that the Russians interfered in our election?

 

[FullMonte]

We know for a fact that the Obama administration spied on the Trump campaign with the FISA on Carter Page according to the IG report.

I get so confused when I hear people make this claim. Can you help me understand how the FISA on Carter Page equates to spying on the Trump campaign?

Sept. 25, 2016 – Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway tells CNN’s Jake Tapper that Page is not part of the Trump campaign:

Oct. 21, 2016 – The Justice Department and the FBI apply for and obtain a FISA probable cause order to surveil Page’s electronic communications,

If the FBI applied for the FISA warrant a month after the campaign said that he was not a part of the campaign, how does that equate to spying on the campaign?

Timeline of Carter Page’s Contacts with Russia [Updated]

At the heart of the recent Nunes memo controversy lies a FISA order application for former Trump campaign aide Carter Page. But Page had piqued the interest of FBI investigators long before the Trump campaign, owing to his contacts with the Russian government and energy sector. For example, his...

www.justsecurity.org