Dishonesty in Research: A Growing Problem, or Growing Awareness of a Problem Long Existing? (1 Viewer)

[Snarky Sack]

Keep in mind that academic journals who peer review research articles before they publish them have no way to check on the honesty of the researchers. The experiments, surveys and other data gathering procedures have already been done, and the only record of them are those produced by the researchers who write the articles.

The exception to that might be meta studies, which look at a number of articles by other researchers in order to identify trends. But even for those, the meta-researcher cannot check the honesty of every piece of research that they examine.

Can you trust a Harvard dishonesty researcher?

The hard problem of faked data in science.

www.vox.com

My point is not that we should never believe research. It is that there is no reason to always believe research. When we are presented with purported proof of some political point that is based on research, we need to examine the research with some skepticism. If it doesn't pass the laugh test, the common sense test, and the "who paid for this" test, we should look at it with a lot of skepticism.

 

[Snarky Sack]

It's literally the first gif that comes up when searching "nobody got time for dat". It's been used hundreds of times on multiple sites and you're the first person to complain about that. Wonder why that is.

Maybe I just care more that people not be depicted in such a racist way?

Edit: I even screenshot it for you.

No need to show it to me again. It would be hard to unsee it after one time.

 

[Lapaz]

This just feels like an attempt to make people question all research, and science and legitimate critical thinking.

And of course one shouldn't believe everything they read. Sorta like we'll, it's on the internet so it must be true sentiment.

I agree that we should always evaluate with a skeptical mind, but we should be more skeptical of those that have repeatedly shown themselves to be dishonest or at least misleading. I think the OP is attempting to imply that the vast majority of information that has been published that may disagree with his POV is probably invalid. That's unlikely, since most science has to be duplicatable. If one study publishes findings, but other researchers attempt to duplicate the findings, and aren't able to do so, then that study is usually discredited. This is why climate science is overwhelming, but not 100% aligned. There are always a few outliers, whether intentionally or erroneously so. That doesn't mean that every outlier is wrong, because occasionally an outlier reveals truth, but that is rare. We wouldn't even be able to communicate over this forum without all of the scientists over the years that have had to check each other's findings with regard to RF propagation and a myriad of other related science. I'm sure that along the way that there were outliers that whose findings essentially went extinct since they were wrong, and would've prevented the advances that we have achieved. Science is sort of Darwinian.

 

[DaveXA]

Maybe I just care more that people not be depicted in such a racist way?

Oh boo hoo. Again, this has been posted numerous times over the years and not one person has ever complained about it. You being butthurt about it is what's weird.

No need to show it to me again. It would be hard to unsee it after one time.

How can anyone take you seriously when you make comments like this?

 

[Lapaz]

It sure did!

Like the forced wearing of masks, which was based on no science at all. Fauci himself said that they would be ineffective, until he made the science-free decision to promote mandatory mask wear for all.

Next time that you, or anyone you care about, has an operation, you should insist that the doctors and all the other care takers remove their masks, since there isn't any science to support masks. /s I doubt you would do that, since masks do help, and there is plenty of science to support that. No one believes, or at least no one should believe that they are perfect, and many people use them improperly, but they did help reduce the spread of diseases, especially when used correctly. The use of the masks was a means to reduce the spread to help keep hospitals from being overwhelmed and it bought us time to develop treatments. It is beyond stupid to refuse to take measures that will help.

Or the statement that if you get the vaccine, you don't have to wear a mask anymore. I fell for that one, and it lasted what? A week. It wasn't science, it was science-free public policy making.

Show me a credible link to person that said that getting a vaccine meant that you don't have to wear a mask. Vaccines are not perfect either. The vaccines helped keep people from dying, not from catching Covid. If you fell for a comment that suggested that masks weren't needed because you were not going to catch Covid, then you have bad sources. Covid was known to be mutating, so much like the flu vaccine, it wasn't going to prevent all cases of the flu. It is meant to reduce the likelihood of catching and getting a severe case of a disease.

Of course that was not about fraudulent research, because there was no research at all backing up mask wear for healthy people out in public as a way to prevent the spread of COVID.

But danged if it didn't make it look like we were doing something. Like Gerald Ford's "Whip Inflation Now" (WIN) buttons.

How do vaccines work?​

Vaccines help your immune system fight infections faster and more effectively. When you get a vaccine, it sparks your immune response, helping your body fight off and remember the germ so it can attack it if the germ ever invades again. And since vaccines are made of very small amounts of weak or dead germs, they won’t make you sick.

Vaccines often provide long-lasting immunity to serious diseases without the risk of serious illness. Learn more about getting vaccinated .

Vaccines Protect You

Vaccines do an incredible job of protecting you from serious diseases like whooping cough and measles.\n\nHave you ever wondered how vaccines actually work? Vaccines help your immune system do its job better and faster. And that protects you from serious diseases.

www.hhs.gov

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

It was Bid Daddy Saints who brought up COVID, not me.

Can you give a better example of people ignoring/disregarding science at such a high rate (mostly political)?

 

[Snarky Sack]

Next time that you, or anyone you care about, has an operation, you should insist that the doctors and all the other care takers remove their masks, since there isn't any science to support masks. /s I doubt you would do that, since masks do help, and there is plenty of science to support that. No one believes, or at least no one should believe that they are perfect, and many people use them improperly, but they did help reduce the spread of diseases, especially when used correctly. The use of the masks was a means to reduce the spread to help keep hospitals from being overwhelmed and it bought us time to develop treatments. It is beyond stupid to refuse to take measures that will help.

Apples and oranges. Surgery is not every day life. Do you also require people around you to "scrub in" and to wear hair coverings and latex gloves as a condition of being in a public place?

Show me a credible link to person that said that getting a vaccine meant that you don't have to wear a mask. Vaccines are not perfect either. The vaccines helped keep people from dying, not from catching Covid. If you fell for a comment that suggested that masks weren't needed because you were not going to catch Covid, then you have bad sources. Covid was known to be mutating, so much like the flu vaccine, it wasn't going to prevent all cases of the flu. It is meant to reduce the likelihood of catching and getting a severe case of a disease.

Were you out of the country at the time?

Remarks by President Biden on the COVID-19 Response and the Vaccination Program | The White House

Rose Garden 3:58 P.M. EDT THE PRESIDENT: Well, today is a great day for America in our long battle with the coronavirus. Just a few hours ago, the

www.whitehouse.gov

CDC says fully vaccinated people don't need to wear face masks indoors or outdoors in most settings

There are a handful of instances where people will still need to wear masks — in a health-care setting, at a business that mandates them or on public transportation.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Snarky Sack]

Can you give a better example of people ignoring/disregarding science at such a high rate (mostly political)?

I was only responding to Davex chastising me for talking about COVID.

Didn't mean to misspell your name.

 

[efil4]

It just makes you look like an idiot, just let it go man.

he good at that. Real good.

 

[Lapaz]

Apples and oranges. Surgery is not every day life. Do you also require people around you to "scrub in" and to wear hair coverings and latex gloves as a condition of being in a public place?

I want people to take appropriate protective measures. If someone in my family is sick, we try to take extra precautions. When COVID was very prevalent and spreading, it was common sense to wear masks and practice distancing.

Were you out of the country at the time?

Remarks by President Biden on the COVID-19 Response and the Vaccination Program | The White House

Rose Garden 3:58 P.M. EDT THE PRESIDENT: Well, today is a great day for America in our long battle with the coronavirus. Just a few hours ago, the

www.whitehouse.gov

CDC says fully vaccinated people don't need to wear face masks indoors or outdoors in most settings

There are a handful of instances where people will still need to wear masks — in a health-care setting, at a business that mandates them or on public transportation.

www.cnbc.com

Thank you for providing a credible link. I remember that, and at that point in time it wasn't terrible advice, since our daily new cases were below 100/day, down from over 714/day in January of 2021.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Vaccinations

Explore data on COVID-19 vaccinations across the world.

ourworldindata.org

I believe they were doing that as a carrot to get more people to take the vaccine. I think it was also a recognition that vaccinated people would probably only get mild symptoms, and would recover much quicker, so they weren't as likely to spread Covid. I still think people should've continued to wear masks, because once most people stopped, it led to most the rest taking them off, and the disease was still prevalant. However, the masking recommendation quickly returned when Delta started spreading. Perhaps I should've said that masking was a key tool to reduce the spread, but masking recommendations changed as the circumstances changed. That's a lot different than your aspersions that you casted towards the people making masking recommendations.

A timeline of the CDC's advice on face masks

Rules and guidance about face masks have changed throughout the pandemic. Here's how the CDC's advice has evolved.

www.latimes.com

Apples and oranges. Surgery is not every day life. Do you also require people around you to "scrub in" and to wear hair coverings and latex gloves as a condition of being in a public place?


Were you out of the country at the time?

Remarks by President Biden on the COVID-19 Response and the Vaccination Program | The White House

Rose Garden 3:58 P.M. EDT THE PRESIDENT: Well, today is a great day for America in our long battle with the coronavirus. Just a few hours ago, the

www.whitehouse.gov

CDC says fully vaccinated people don't need to wear face masks indoors or outdoors in most settings

There are a handful of instances where people will still need to wear masks — in a health-care setting, at a business that mandates them or on public transportation.

www.cnbc.com

 

[coldseat]

The right wing of this country really needs to learn how to give up and move on. They have a running list, 50 years long of every gripe, slight and conspiracy that they consistently argue about to try and change history. They never tire of looking back, that's why they have no plans for our future as a country. It's annoying as hell, which is why nobody enjoys talking to a right winger.

 

[Snarky Sack]

I want people to take appropriate protective measures. If someone in my family is sick, we try to take extra precautions. When COVID was very prevalent and spreading, it was common sense to wear masks and practice distancing.

But it was never analogous to wearing a mask for surgery, so your implication that people who opposed mandatory masking would also want their loved ones operated on by a surgeon not wearing a mask was illogical.

Surgeons wear masks for the same reason they cover almost all of their body except for their eyes. They lean over open incisions which are often exposing vital organs. They do not wear masks so that they don't infect the surgical nurse and the anesthesiologist with COVID, which they could not do if they did not even have COVID.

The logic of two year olds forced to wear a mask on a long plane flight is nowhere close to a surgeon wearing scrubs.

Thank you for providing a credible link. I remember that, and at that point in time it wasn't terrible advice, since our daily new cases were below 100/day, down from over 714/day in January of 2021.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Vaccinations

Explore data on COVID-19 vaccinations across the world.

ourworldindata.org

I believe they were doing that as a carrot to get more people to take the vaccine.

Yes, they absolutely were doing that a carrot to gain compliance. Then they withdrew that advice. I'm sure they felt that the deception was for our own good.

Just as Fauci told us not to wear masks and later said that he only gave that advice to protect the supply of masks needed for health care providers. I believe he was being deceptive also when he told us that t-shirt material masks were effective, also to protect the masks for health care workers.

I understand the motivation, but you can only tell so many of these "little white lies," before people start to wonder if you even know the difference between truth and lies.

I think it was also a recognition that vaccinated people would probably only get mild symptoms, and would recover much quicker, so they weren't as likely to spread Covid. I still think people should've continued to wear masks, because once most people stopped, it led to most the rest taking them off, and the disease was still prevalant. However, the masking recommendation quickly returned when Delta started spreading.

I well remember when Texas Democratic lawmakers fled the state to DC celebrating not only avoiding their duty, but also being able to party unmasked as advised by the president.




They thought DC would not have beer? That's a Texas thing, alright.

It turned into a super-spreader event, which is how many first learned that Fauci had been wrong again. Doh!

Perhaps I should've said that masking was a key tool to reduce the spread, but masking recommendations changed as the circumstances changed. That's a lot different than your aspersions that you casted towards the people making masking recommendations.

A timeline of the CDC's advice on face masks

Rules and guidance about face masks have changed throughout the pandemic. Here's how the CDC's advice has evolved.

www.latimes.com

No, I liked your more honest explanation that they were telling us things to incentivize the behavior they wanted, recognizing that people had had just about enough of the use of force.