Law Enforcement Reform Thread (formerly Defund the Police) (1 Viewer)

[First Time Poster]

So I got busy the other day with the intention to revisit this topic and answer some of the responses put forward but I realized the thread was deleted. But, I felt we had good dialogue happening before I left so I wanted to restart the topic to get the conversation going again. We started some dialogue about it on the liberal board but I feel this topic transcends party lines so I'm making a MCB thread. Post #2, or my next post, is the post I made on the liberal board when asked to elaborate how I felt.

 

[SaintForLife]

Agreed that it’s tragic
What is it’s relevance to the thread?

I did see a CNN article about it, but I'm curious if it will receive the same amount of media attention as other mass shootings. The shooting included a police officer being shot who is struggling for her life so I doubt it will receive the wall to wall coverage of other mass shootings. Which thread should I have posted it in?

 

[brandon]

I did see a CNN article about it, but I'm curious if it will receive the same amount of media attention as other mass shootings. The shooting included a police officer being shot who is struggling for her life so I doubt it will receive the wall to wall coverage of other mass shootings. Which thread should I have posted it in?

What is the political relevance? If you flesh that out, maybe we could decide which thread (or if a new thread) is appropriate.

Is it a defund the police topic? A gun control topic? A mental healthcare topic? A race topic? A media bias topic?

With what you've given us so far, it's an EE topic.

 

[SaintForLife]

I think it's pretty obvious what he's doing. He's setting a trap AND killing two birds with one stone.

1. If you care about BLM then this should be your number one priority!!! (ignoring that government authorities killing black people with no consequences is an entirely different animal than black on black crime)

2. If you defund the police then you are allowing this to happen in greater numbers proving that you don't care about Black Lives!!!! (ignoring what I'm sure has been explained over and over in this thread that defund the police doesn't mean get rid of all of the police).

3. When someone calls him out on it since he put the bare minimum on the post he can claim "you guys are just reading into it and putting words into my mouth wah wah wah" feeding into his martyr complex of posting on a board overrun with "liberals" just itching to ban all these innocent conservatives just looking for genuine debate.

Not quite, but that was a nice strawman to throw out there. I think you are doing some protecting since you had no idea what other thoughts I had on the subject besides what I posted. I anxiously await you telling me what I really meant to say on my next post.

 

[SaintForLife]

What is the political relevance? If you flesh that out, maybe we could decide which thread (or if a new thread) is appropriate.

Is it a defund the police topic? A gun control topic? A mental healthcare topic? A race topic? A media bias topic?

With what you've given us so far, it's an EE topic.

Considering the amount of media coverage that most mass shooting have received compared to the almost nonexistent coverage when a police officer is shot or when a black person is killed by someone who isn't a white police officer I think it has some relevance to this thread.

 

[efil4]

What is the political relevance? If you flesh that out, maybe we could decide which thread (or if a new thread) is appropriate.

Is it a defund the police topic? A gun control topic? A mental healthcare topic? A race topic? A media bias topic?

With what you've given us so far, it's an EE topic.

He is purposefully "ambiguous" in most of his replies.

 

[Complex Kid]

1. If you care about BLM then this should be your number one priority!!! (ignoring that government authorities killing black people with no consequences is an entirely different animal than black on black crime)

Considering the amount of media coverage that most mass shooting have received compared to the almost nonexistent coverage when a police officer is shot or when a black person is killed by someone who isn't a white police officer I think it has some relevance to this thread.

3. When someone calls him out on it since he put the bare minimum on the post he can claim "you guys are just reading into it and putting words into my mouth wah wah wah" feeding into his martyr complex of posting on a board overrun with "liberals" just itching to ban all these innocent conservatives just looking for genuine debate.

Not quite, but that was a nice strawman to throw out there. I think you are doing some protecting since you had no idea what other thoughts I had on the subject besides what I posted. I anxiously await you telling me what I really meant to say on my next post.

 

[SaintForLife]

I do believe there does need to be police reform and blacks are unfairly targeted by police. I also think that the media has made it seem like white police officers are killing unarmed black people in bigger numbers than what the numbers show.

This was an interesting poll that shows 61% of black people want the police presence to remain the same and 20% of black people want more police presence.

Black Americans Want Police to Retain Local Presence

It's not so much the volume of interactions Black Americans have with the police that troubles them or differentiates them from other racial groups, but rather the quality of those interactions.

news.gallup.com

 

[brandon]

I also think that the media has made it seem like white police officers are killing unarmed black people in bigger numbers than what the numbers show.

You do realize that every time they show a white police officer killing an unarmed black person, they're showing something that actually happened, right? So there's no way they're showing it happening more than it's happening. They're just showing it happening. In fact, they're only showing what actually gets recorded and submitted to them. There are countless times where it's happened and we'll never know. If anything the media is showing it at a much lower rate than is actually occurring.

If you want to live in denial and the gosh-darned media just won't let you be comfortably ignorant, that's your problem.

 

[brandon]

This was an interesting poll that shows 61% of black people want the police presence to remain the same and 20% of black people want more police presence.

This doesn't mean they want police to keep killing them. They want police to have a presence and do their jobs correctly. Which is largely what "Defund the Police" means. Just freaking do your job and avoid killing people on a general basis.

 

[insidejob]

Let's just say that when a couple of middle aged white women driving down the street see a black man (who was looking to buy a house in the neighborhood) being hassled by the police stopped, pulled over and recorded the whole event speaks volumes as to where we are with police relations in this country. People are starting to come around. And if so many white folks are being gunned down while unarmed, why aren't there a plethora of videos of it happening all over the internet like there are when the situation is reversed? Probably because you can't record something that isn't happening with anywhere the frequency it is for black people.

 

[SaintForLife]

You do realize that every time they show a white police officer killing an unarmed black person, they're showing something that actually happened, right? So there's no way they're showing it happening more than it's happening. They're just showing it happening. In fact, they're only showing what actually gets recorded and submitted to them. There are countless times where it's happened and we'll never know. If anything the media is showing it at a much lower rate than is actually occurring.

If you want to live in denial and the gosh-darned media just won't let you be comfortably ignorant, that's your problem.

How are there countless times where it happens and we don't know about it? Are you strictly talking about the media or that those murders aren't reported?

If you don't see how the media will try inflame sensitive subjects for ratings or other reasons then I don't know what to tell you. See the discredited Russiagate for an example

 

[brandon]

How are there countless times where it happens and we don't know about it? Are you strictly talking about the media or that those murders aren't reported?

Events are actively misreported by police. "He was resisting," "He had a gun," "He was under the influence of drugs," etc.

When there's no video, the default position is to believe the police report. What you are seeing is that many times, these police reports have been falsified, but only now is video evidence proving that. For many, many more cases, we will never know because the contradictory evidence is not available.

And even if it doesn't result in death, how many more are locked up because of police misconduct?

If you don't see how the media will try inflame sensitive subjects for ratings or other reasons then I don't know what to tell you. See the discredited Russiagate for an example

Does the media want ratings? Sure. Can they sensationalize, absolutely.

But every report of someone being murdered by police is an actual person. They aren't made up. They're real. And so if you feel like the media is reporting it too frequently, then maybe the problem isn't actually the media's reporting too frequently, but the police murdering too frequently.

 

[insidejob]

then maybe the problem isn't actually the media's reporting too frequently, but the police murdering too frequently.

There's no way that can be it. I was just told that police kill as many, if not more, unarmed white people than black people. It just never gets recorded for some reason.

 

[insidejob]

How about this? Black kids getting arrested for being black even while those who called the police to come HELP THESE KIDS are telling the police "It's not them! It was that other guy!" they never lowered their guns, got the kids on the ground and arrested all three of them while the white homeless man who was attacking him just went about his day.

This ever happen to any of y'all just for being white? It ain't just about killing unarmed black people, it's the shirt like this that they have to suffer through (and worry about suffering through) on a daily basis in most suburban and rural areas.

 

[Complex Kid]

How about this? Black kids getting arrested for being black even while those who called the police to come HELP THESE KIDS are telling the police "It's not them! It was that other guy!" they never lowered their guns, got the kids on the ground and arrested all three of them while the white homeless man who was attacking him just went about his day.

This ever happen to any of y'all just for being white? It ain't just about killing unarmed black people, it's the shirt like this that they have to suffer through (and worry about suffering through) on a daily basis in most suburban and rural areas.

There is an 11 minute version on instagram that is even more infuriating. After they have the kids in the car they are talking to the people doing the filming and they are explaining what happened and the cops are like "noooo we are on a different call involving 3 kids and a homeless man"

 

[Richard]

How about this? Black kids getting arrested for being black even while those who called the police to come HELP THESE KIDS are telling the police "It's not them! It was that other guy!" they never lowered their guns, got the kids on the ground and arrested all three of them while the white homeless man who was attacking him just went about his day.

This ever happen to any of y'all just for being white? It ain't just about killing unarmed black people, it's the shirt like this that they have to suffer through (and worry about suffering through) on a daily basis in most suburban and rural areas.

Absolutely hideous.

 

[V Chip]

think you are doing some protecting since you had no idea what other thoughts I had on the subject besides what I posted.

Perhaps that's why the board guidelines suggest fleshing out a post and not posting basically naked links/tweets.

 

[SaintForLife]

Events are actively misreported by police. "He was resisting," "He had a gun," "He was under the influence of drugs," etc.

When there's no video, the default position is to believe the police report. What you are seeing is that many times, these police reports have been falsified, but only now is video evidence proving that. For many, many more cases, we will never know because the contradictory evidence is not available.

And even if it doesn't result in death, how many more are locked up because of police misconduct?

Does the media want ratings? Sure. Can they sensationalize, absolutely.

But every report of someone being murdered by police is an actual person. They aren't made up. They're real. And so if you feel like the media is reporting it too frequently, then maybe the problem isn't actually the media's reporting too frequently, but the police murdering too frequently.

It's almost like you are ignoring my post where I said "I do believe there does need to be police reform and blacks are unfairly targeted by police."

I never said the media was reporting it too much, but they definitely don't give the proper context. I don't agree with the overall premise if this article, but it did contain some statistics that give some context.

This charge of systemic police bias was wrong during the Obama years and remains so today. However sickening the video of Floyd’s arrest, it isn’t representative of the 375 million annual contacts that police officers have with civilians. A solid body of evidence finds no structural bias in the criminal-justice system with regard to arrests, prosecution or sentencing. Crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions.

In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.

The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.

On Memorial Day weekend in Chicago alone, 10 African-Americans were killed in drive-by shootings. Such routine violence has continued—a 72-year-old Chicago man shot in the face on May 29 by a gunman who fired about a dozen shots into a residence; two 19-year-old women on the South Side shot to death as they sat in a parked car a few hours earlier; a 16-year-old boy fatally stabbed with his own knife that same day. This past weekend, 80 Chicagoans were shot in drive-by shootings, 21 fatally, the victims overwhelmingly black. Police shootings are not the reason that blacks die of homicide at eight times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined; criminal violence is.

The latest in a series of studies undercutting the claim of systemic police bias was published in August 2019 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The researchers found that the more frequently officers encounter violent suspects from any given racial group, the greater the chance that a member of that group will be fatally shot by a police officer. There is “no significant evidence of antiblack disparity in the likelihood of being fatally shot by police,” they concluded.

A 2015 Justice Department analysis of the Philadelphia Police Department found that white police officers were less likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot unarmed black suspects. Research by Harvard economist Roland G. Fryer Jr. also found no evidence of racial discrimination in shootings. Any evidence to the contrary fails to take into account crime rates and civilian behavior before and during interactions with police.

Opinion | The Myth of Systemic Police Racism

Hold officers accountable who use excessive force. But there’s no evidence of widespread racial bias.

www-wsj-com.cdn.ampproject.org