Capitol Riot arrests (2 Viewers)

[Bigdaddysaints]

Figured we should start a separate thread on the arrests and those involved in the storming of the Capitol. I know it has been talked about in the other thread a lot, but for the ones who just want to follow the ones arrested and/or charged, this will be an easier way to see updates on the investigations.

Link below is everyone who has been arrested. But we know there will be more.

Capitol Breach Cases

www.justice.gov

The website seems to be updated with new information daily.

The ones who are getting the most air time:

Notable Arrests After the Riot at the Capitol (Published 2021)

Dozens have been charged since a mob of Trump supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

www.nytimes.com

Jake Angeli

Adam Johnson

Richard Barnett

Kevin Seefried

Eric Gavelek Munchel

Larry R. Brock
Lisa Eisenhart
Robert Keith Packer
Klete Keller
Aaron Mostofsky
Anthime Joseph Gionet
Peter Francis Stager
Christine Priola

 

[wardorican]

Not to derail this thread (maybe a conversation for elsewhere), but it's like the term "racist". On a technical level, it's a low bar to consider something racist. But, racist items that just cross the low bar aren't what we'd historically think of as racist (like cross burnings, lynchings, acid in pools, denying service at the counter, sit in the back of the bus, etc).

i..e bad vs how bad.

Does 'insurrection' have a similar low bar for the 'yes or no' question, but different 'grades'.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

...I'm not exactly sure what the dividing line on insurrection is. Does it need to be successful? Does it require military or heavily armed people? Gunfire? Does it require strong organization? Can it be somewhat organic and have people just caught up in it?

I'm not sure what else to call an angry mob, who breaches the capitol grounds, and building, wanting to change a democratic outcome by breaking the rules, through the threats of force/violence.

For me, the line is clear. Their intentions were to end the election process and to install an unelected President. They also intended to arrest several members of congress and hold a mock trial and they intended to execute VP Pence.


Definition of insurrection

: an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government


Whether they had guns, pitchforks or flag poles doesn't matter, their intentions are what matters and they made their intentions very clear.

On a personal note, I don't think I will ever get the following disgusting image out of my head:

 

[MT15]

Yup, that was an insurrection.

 

[DaveXA]

Yup, that was an insurrection.

Indeed, I just can't see how it's not an insurrection. And exactly one person led it.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....

Sooo... the violent insurrection and attempted coup(TM).

It's been 5 weeks now, and we still haven't had ANYONE charged with Insurrection; just variations on 'illegally entering a government building' and the like.

People on this forum have already pointed out that the initial arresting charge doesn't rule out more serious charge being brought later. But HOW 'later' ? It's already been 5 weeks ?

what about the ones who have been charged with conspiracy already? is that the same as illegal entering etc?
do you really think they are gonna push this stuff through quickly without having their ducks in a row? these morons aren't being tried by the kangaroo court of Congress. they will be dealing with DOJ, FBI, CIA, DHS, NSA, and any other investigative branches that have initials.. no one feels sorry or feels sympathy for these morons..

 

[Roofgardener]

if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....

what about the ones who have been charged with conspiracy already? is that the same as illegal entering etc?
do you really think they are gonna push this stuff through quickly without having their ducks in a row? these morons aren't being tried by the kangaroo court of Congress. they will be dealing with DOJ, FBI, CIA, DHS, NSA, and any other investigative branches that have initials.. no one feels sorry or feels sympathy for these morons..

Interesting; I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the heads-up.
Curiously, it doesn't say what they where conspiring to actually DO ? Is 'conspiracy' a stand-alone charge in US law ?

Five people associated with Proud Boys arrested for Capitol riot on conspiracy charges | CNN Politics

The Justice Department unsealed conspiracy charges against five people associated with the Proud Boys on Thursday in the latest and largest move against the far-right group’s coordinated role in the insurrection last month.

edition.cnn.com

 

[insidejob]

Interesting; I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the heads-up.
Curiously, it doesn't say what they where conspiring to actually DO ? Is 'conspiracy' a stand-alone charge in US law ?

Five people associated with Proud Boys arrested for Capitol riot on conspiracy charges | CNN Politics

The Justice Department unsealed conspiracy charges against five people associated with the Proud Boys on Thursday in the latest and largest move against the far-right group’s coordinated role in the insurrection last month.

edition.cnn.com

I believe conspiracy is a stand a lone charge. If there were people who were part of the planning to fork up the Capitol who didn't actually participate, they can be charged for their participation in the planning.

 

[Xeno]

Sooo... the violent insurrection and attempted coup(TM).

It's been 5 weeks now, and we still haven't had ANYONE charged with Insurrection; just variations on 'illegally entering a government building' and the like.

People on this forum have already pointed out that the initial arresting charge doesn't rule out more serious charge being brought later. But HOW 'later' ? It's already been 5 weeks ?

At least five years, the minimum statute of limitation for a federal crime.

 

[insidejob]

 

[Roofgardener]

I believe conspiracy is a stand a lone charge. If there were people who were part of the planning to fork up the Capitol who didn't actually participate, they can be charged for their participation in the planning.

Fair enough. If so, that seems a very.. abstract.. statute. So you can - in theory - be arrested for 'conspiracy', without it specifying what you where conspiring to actually DO ?

At least five years, the minimum statute of limitation for a federal crime.

Fair point ! I note, however, that the Press and the Democrats didn't wait five years - or even 5 minutes - before labelling it insurrection. (and with good grounds). But if it was THAT clear, then I would expect the FBI to start charging people with it at an earlier stage ?

 

[Dragon]

Fair enough. If so, that seems a very.. abstract.. statute. So you can - in theory - be arrested for 'conspiracy', without it specifying what you where conspiring to actually DO ?

Fair point ! I note, however, that the Press and the Democrats didn't wait five years - or even 5 minutes - before labelling it insurrection. (and with good grounds). But if it was THAT clear, then I would expect the FBI to start charging people with it at an earlier stage ?

AFAIK when you charge someone, their defense team gets access to the evidence against them. With such a serious charge, I think that the investigators will keep that under wraps until they are sure that they have all their ducks in a row and everyone involved has been identified and charged. So it makes a world of sense to do it the way they do.

 

[Roofgardener]

AFAIK when you charge someone, their defense team gets access to the evidence against them. With such a serious charge, I think that the investigators will keep that under wraps until they are sure that they have all their ducks in a row and everyone involved has been identified and charged. So it makes a world of sense to do it the way they do.

Interesting.
So if they are initially charged with.. dunno.. entering a government building, can they then SUBSEQUENTLY be charged with Insurrection, or would that be a kind of 'double jeopardy' with overlapping charges and evidence ?

 

[MT15]

How would that be any sort of double jeopardy? Different charges, different crimes.

 

[Dragon]

Interesting.
So if they are initially charged with.. dunno.. entering a government building, can they then SUBSEQUENTLY be charged with Insurrection, or would that be a kind of 'double jeopardy' with overlapping charges and evidence ?

Precisely.. and no it would not be overlapping because it would just add to the number of violations that they prosecute the defendants for.

Just like when you may arrest someone for burglery and after ransacking his house with a warrent find evidence of more crimes, then you can certainly add those to his case.

 

[DaveXA]

Fair enough. If so, that seems a very.. abstract.. statute. So you can - in theory - be arrested for 'conspiracy', without it specifying what you where conspiring to actually DO ?

Fair point ! I note, however, that the Press and the Democrats didn't wait five years - or even 5 minutes - before labelling it insurrection. (and with good grounds). But if it was THAT clear, then I would expect the FBI to start charging people with it at an earlier stage ?

While some things were clear, what may not have been clear is exactly who did what. With well over 100 people being charged, and numerous potential charges for each one, the authorities, most likely the FBI, will be coordinating with multiple agencies, the USCP, DCPD, national guard, Secret Service, Sargeant at Arms and possibly others there are a lot of moving parts. The investigation, charges and effecting arrest of the responsible individuals will take quite a while.

I don't expect we'll know the full extent of the coordination and destruction for several months. This thing is just getting started and I fully expect we'll see some sort of commission along the lines of the 9-11 commission and an extensive Congressional investigation will take place as well.

Ultimately, the guy responsible is the guy who gave all these idiots the hope and idea that they still could get Congress to reject what was already a forgone conclusion and a largely ceremonial event. I mean, what did they expect would happen?

Anyway, the investigations, charges and trials will all take a while to unwind. The civil suits will take years to get through. I'd say ask again in 6 months to a year.

 

[Xeno]

Fair enough. If so, that seems a very.. abstract.. statute. So you can - in theory - be arrested for 'conspiracy', without it specifying what you where conspiring to actually DO ?

Fair point ! I note, however, that the Press and the Democrats didn't wait five years - or even 5 minutes - before labelling it insurrection. (and with good grounds). But if it was THAT clear, then I would expect the FBI to start charging people with it at an earlier stage ?

You may have misunderstood what I said. Authorities have at least five years to make those specific charges. That's the minimum for a federal crime, though some have a 10 year statute of limitation, some 15 year and any crime that could carry the death penalty has no statute of limitation. I couldn't find specifics for 18 U.S.C § 2383.

But as was said earlier, authorities aren't going to make a charge like that until they have enough evidence that they can expect a conviction, and a charge like that would require a grand jury indictment, which may not be possible right now due to COVID. Once they make the charge they only have a certain amount of time to convene a grand jury but if they can't convene a grand jury because of COVID then they've effectively ended their own case.

What the media or Democrats call it is irrelevant. Even if the accused wanted to bring a libel suit against them, they can easily argue they used the colloquial "insurrection."

 

[Roofgardener]

While some things were clear, what may not have been clear is exactly who did what. With well over 100 people being charged, and numerous potential charges for each one, the authorities, most likely the FBI, will be coordinating with multiple agencies, the USCP, DCPD, national guard, Secret Service, Sargeant at Arms and possibly others there are a lot of moving parts. The investigation, charges and effecting arrest of the responsible individuals will take quite a while.

I don't expect we'll know the full extent of the coordination and destruction for several months. This thing is just getting started and I fully expect we'll see some sort of commission along the lines of the 9-11 commission and an extensive Congressional investigation will take place as well.

Ultimately, the guy responsible is the guy who gave all these idiots the hope and idea that they still could get Congress to reject what was already a forgone conclusion and a largely ceremonial event. I mean, what did they expect would happen?

Anyway, the investigations, charges and trials will all take a while to unwind. The civil suits will take years to get through. I'd say ask again in 6 months to a year.

Hmm.. my tea will have gone cold by then !

 

[DaveXA]

Hmm.. my tea will have gone cold by then !

Just use the microwave to heat it back up.