Bipartisan Infrastructure/3.5T Reconciliation/Gov Funding/Debt Ceiling (1 Viewer)

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    coldseat

    coldseat

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    Thought it would be good to have a place to discuss all the drama on Capitol Hill and whether Democrats will get any of this signed. Given that Republican have abandoned any responsibility of doing anything for the good of country it's on Dems to fund the government and raise the debt ceiling. But as with the reconciliation bill, moderates are opposing this.

    I'm really trying hard to understand why Manchin and Sinema are making the reconciliation bill process so difficult and how they think that benefits them? As far as I can see, all it's doing is raising the ire of the majority of democrats towards them. It's been well known for a long time now that both the Infrastructure bill and reconciliation bill were tied together. They worked so hard to get and "Bipartisan" Infrastructure bill together (because it was oh so important to them to work together) and passed in the Senate, but now want to slow drag and bulk on the reconciliation bill (by not being able to negotiate with members of their own party)? There by, Putting both bills passage at risk and tanking both the Biden agenda and any hope of winning Congress in 2022? Make it make sense!

    I suspect they'll get it done in the end because the implication of failure are really bad. But why make it so dysfunctional?

    The drama and diplomacy are set to intensify over the next 24 hours, as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) scrambles to keep her fractious, narrow majority intact and send the first of two major economic initiatives to Biden’s desk. In a sign of the stakes, the president even canceled a planned Wednesday trip to Chicago so that he could stay in Washington and attempt to spare his agenda from collapse.
    Democrats generally support the infrastructure package, which proposes major new investments in the country’s aging roads, bridges, pipes, ports and Internet connections. But the bill has become a critical political bargaining chip for liberal-leaning lawmakers, who have threatened to scuttle it to preserve the breadth of a second, roughly $3.5 trillion economic package.
    What is in and out of the bipartisan infrastructure bill?
    That latter proposal aims to expand Medicare, invest new sums to combat climate change, offer free prekindergarten and community college to all students and extend new aid to low-income families — all financed through taxes increases on wealthy Americans and corporations. Liberals fear it is likely to be slashed in scope dramatically by moderates, including Sens. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) and Joe Manchin III (D-W.Va.), unless they hold up the infrastructure package the duo helped negotiate — leading to the stalemate that plagues the party on the eve of the House vote.
    Click to expand...

     
    J-DONK said:
    Republicans are essentially oligarchy authoritarians. Democrats have really bounced back from the Clinton era of corporate democrats at least have a progressive group. I view American politics through the lens of enrichening corporate donors, and protecting those interest. Instead of left vs right, my view is top vs bottom. I see no real difference in Chuck Schumer, or Mitch McConnell.

    I also view most of the media as pro-corporate. After all, it's owned by corporations, and has a vested interest in every story protecting corporations, and the oligarchy that run them. It's why this bill was touted as a 6.5 trillion spending billion instead of 650 billion over 10 years. It's why progressive policies that citizens of every other 1st world country enjoy are labeled as extreme. It's also why progressives are the whipping boy every cycle that Democrats don't perform well.

    There are Democrats on this board who will still tell you the reason why Dems didn't win Florida was because of progressives pushing the envelope to far. The truth is far more troubling. Biden lost Florida while a higher minimum wage past. Places like Idaho past a medicad expansion. Ex-con voting rights restored in multiple states including FL. What does all this mean? It appears progressive policies are popular on their own. It's the DNP people don't like. The why is very evident. It's a willful ignorance at this point.

    P.S. The older I get the group I hate the most is the "woke" moderates of the DNP. You know who else hated their guts? MLK
    Click to expand...
    Both the Republicans and Democrats supports the US oligarchs and authoritarianism including the recent actions by the Democrats to try to censor any views they don't like in the name of "misinformation." I agree there's not much difference between Schumer & McConnell. They both serve the Corporate interests, but the Republicans do it front and center while the Democrats try to hide that fact behind their tax the rich talking points.

    The vast majority of the media is pro-corporate and thats why its funny how some here malign any journalists or reporters that fall outside of the mainstream corporate media.
     
    SaintForLife said:
    Both the Republicans and Democrats supports the US oligarchs and authoritarianism including the recent actions by the Democrats to try to censor any views they don't like in the name of "misinformation." I agree there's not much difference between Schumer & McConnell. They both serve the Corporate interests, but the Republicans do it front and center while the Democrats try to hide that fact behind their tax the rich talking points.

    The vast majority of the media is pro-corporate and thats why its funny how some here malign any journalists or reporters that fall outside of the mainstream corporate media.
    Click to expand...
    'cuz Greenwald, Taibbi, Halper, Krystal Ball (worst pun name, ever) and the like are just grifting for clicks from Trumpistas... and apparently people like you. I'm surprised you haven't put up any Jimmy Dore videos yet. If that 'counter-media' troop were so objective they would go after both sides. But, like you, they disguise their bias in one of those 'oh, I don't need to go after both sides I just need to go after Democrats to balance things out' shticks.

    It's why you've always eschewed substantive policy debates in favor of this low-hanging fruit. You fail to see the hypocrisy in your one-sided crusade to point out the hypocrisy of the Dems.
     
    Last edited:
    SaintForLife said:
    Both the Republicans and Democrats supports the US oligarchs and authoritarianism including the recent actions by the Democrats to try to censor any views they don't like in the name of "misinformation." I agree there's not much difference between Schumer & McConnell. They both serve the Corporate interests, but the Republicans do it front and center while the Democrats try to hide that fact behind their tax the rich talking points.

    The vast majority of the media is pro-corporate and thats why its funny how some here malign any journalists or reporters that fall outside of the mainstream corporate media.
    Click to expand...
    “In Wired magazine, Antonio García Martínez describes the contemporary Silicon Valley as “feudalism with better marketing.” He sees a clear elite of venture capitalists and company founders. Below them are the skilled professionals, well paid but living ordinary middle-class lives, given the high prices and heavy taxes. Below them lies the vast population of gig workers, whom García Martínez compares to sharecroppers in the South. At the bottom, there is an untouchable class of homeless, drug addicts, and criminals.36”
    ― Joel Kotkin, The Coming of Neo-Feudalism: A Warning to the Global Middle Class
     
    (CNN)Sen. Joe Manchin said he won't support the $1.75 trillion social safety net expansion bill Democrats are negotiating until there is "greater clarity" about the impact it will have on the country's national debt and the economy, casting major doubt about whether President Joe Biden can get his agenda through Congress.
    At a news conference on Monday afternoon, Manchin laid out fundamental concerns over the approach that Biden and his party are taking in their sweeping agenda. He rejected the party's push to expand social programs and castigated Democrats for using "gimmicks" to hide the true cost of the plan and said far more time is needed to evaluate its economic impact to guard against potential negative consequences.
    Despite months of a lobbying campaign by the White House to win over Manchin, including by cutting the price tag in half and making cuts to key programs, the West Virginia moderate's comments indicate that Democrats may never be able to win his support on this proposal.
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    www.cnn.com

    Manchin warns he may vote against Biden social safety net plan as he criticizes key aspects

    Sen. Joe Manchin said he won't support the $1.75 trillion social safety net expansion bill Democrats are negotiating until there is "greater clarity" about the impact it will have on the country's national debt and the economy, casting major doubt about whether President Joe Biden can get his...
    www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

    This forking guy :cussing:. Obviously he was never negotiating in "good faith". All he's wanted is to string progressive along to force them to vote for the BIF so that he could bail on the reconciliation bill. He believes that will assure his hold on his Senate seat by sticking it to the progressives (and the country). He's worse than a Republican at this point.
     
    GrandAdmiral said:
    Way to go Joe...

    www.cnn.com

    Manchin warns he may vote against Biden social safety net plan as he criticizes key aspects

    Sen. Joe Manchin said he won't support the $1.75 trillion social safety net expansion bill Democrats are negotiating until there is "greater clarity" about the impact it will have on the country's national debt and the economy, casting major doubt about whether President Joe Biden can get his...
    www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
    Click to expand...
    He is an old fashion Democrat----those that used to be moderates. I like the guy. All this plan will do is put my grandchildren in massive debt.
     
    insidejob said:
    No it won't. It'd be paid for in ten years.
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    Famous last words!
    I will say what America needs the most is an infrastructure plan. We need high speed trains to serve every major city in America. that could provide jobs for years and would eliminate flights from city to city. I traveled all over Europe in trains and it is way better than getting on a plane.
     
    Paul said:
    Famous last words!
    I will say what America needs the most is an infrastructure plan. We need high speed trains to serve every major city in America. that could provide jobs for years and would eliminate flights from city to city. I traveled all over Europe in trains and it is way better than getting on a plane.
    Click to expand...

    America doesn't have the population density except in a few spots for HSR to work.

    Also, you literally can't pay conservatives to build them in their states, ask Bobby Jindal.
     
    J-DONK said:
    America doesn't have the population density except in a few spots for HSR to work.

    Also, you literally can't pay conservatives to build them in their states, ask Bobby Jindal.
    Click to expand...
    The trains system could be built all over the east and west coast.

    Politicians are under the control of the oil and gas industry.

    The politicians will also oppose National Medicare for the same reason. They only serve the rich.

    In any event national medicare is inevitable as well as a better train system.
     
    This broader consensus doesn't make it any easier for the White House and congressional Democratic leaders to overcome the resistance from Manchin or Sinema or assuage the frustration with their behavior from other Democrats. Even many House centrists privately insist that Manchin and Sinema are not speaking for them, and a wide array of Democrats believe that in the talks the two are channeling the demands of business lobbyists more than the preferences of any particular party faction or ideological grouping.
    Intramural frustration with the duo's sometimes overlapping and sometimes conflicting demands is likely to reach a new peak after Manchin's latest salvo against the reconciliation bill on Monday possibly undermined the House leadership's plans for a quick vote on the infrastructure package -- the very thing he said he wanted.

    One Democratic senator, who asked for anonymity to discuss internal caucus deliberations, says the fundamental challenge in this negotiation is that Manchin (if not necessarily Sinema) would probably prefer not to pass any reconciliation bill at all. It's "nonsense," the senator said, for Manchin to claim, as he did Monday, that no one "wants to compromise" with him given that the bill's cost was cut in half largely to meet his objections.
    But Manchin, the senator added, feels that he's compromised plenty already because "he'd say 'I'm at zero' " -- meaning he would be content passing no reconciliation bill at all. "I believe him if he says, ... 'I'd rather go home to West Virginia and say I'm not passing anything,' " the senator added. In private or public, when it comes to the reconciliation bill, Manchin "never says anything positive about it. He doesn't like it ... but apparently he's decided he doesn't want to destroy the Biden presidency, which I'm grateful for."
    Click to expand...
    www.cnn.com

    ‘A lot to balance’: How Manchin, Sinema are blocking a new Democratic consensus | CNN Politics

    It’s hard to see amid the stormy conflict with Sens. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, but the elongated Democratic standoff over President Joe Biden’s economic agenda shows how far the party consensus has moved toward a more aggressive role for government than during the presidencies of Bill...
    www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

    Just in case any you (and I know many of you did) thought that Manchin was actually trying to negotiate in good faith on reconciliation. This is why the Progressives won't pass his BIF and give him is win, because they know he will hang them out to dry on reconciliation the second they do.

    I do love watching him lose his shirt over the Progressives using their power in Congress. That dude does not like to be challenged, his ego can't take it.
     
    Paul said:
    I believe he is acting according to what West Virginians expect of him.
    Click to expand...
    You believe that West Virginians expect him to prevent them from benefitting from one of the most important pieces of legislation in years?

    People are weird, I guess.
     

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